head gasket? lots of smoke | FerrariChat

head gasket? lots of smoke

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ang308, May 5, 2016.

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  1. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    #1 ang308, May 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can't I get a break? over the winter i replaced 355 motor and resealed engine. Car is running good thank God. Then I had the dreaded circlip failure on my lotus esprit so im in the midst of fixing that and and rebuilding that motor. Hopefully couple more weeks. SO i decide today to take a drive in my 89 tr. A bit of a long drive (200 miles). Car is running well felt a bit sluggish at times but nothing major. About 150 miles in smoke starts billowing out of the 7/12 bank exhaust. When pressing gas its blue when just coasting or idling its pure white. Temperature and oil pressure normal. So i get home and pull plugs on that side. 10-12 plugs normal. 7-9 plugs wet with oil. when i started car and had those 3 plugs disconnected no more smoke. Plug 8 and 9 were worse. now im guessing could it be a head gasket(not so bad) or worse(pistons or valves)? Unfortunately I have to finish Lotus before I can yank TR motor.
    About 5 years ago i had norwood in texas fit car with EFI system. Has anyone heard about these cars blowing head gaskets? here are the photos of plugs in order 9,8,7. When I shut car off I could hear like water being pressurized in back of motor in the head by the 7-9 plugs. Just cant seem to get a break these last couple years. Car has almost 44000 miles and I own this car since 1997. I never beat on it and in 2001 blew the diff carrier and had ferrari replace it back then. Hopefully they had put the better carrier in there. Any help would be appreciated.
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  2. Gialllo uno

    Gialllo uno Formula Junior

    Jul 5, 2014
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    I was leaning towards a head gasket or coolant leak with the white smoke, especially with the coolant sound. Maybe with plugs out if you pressurized the cooling system you might be able to detect any leakage in the cylinder . They sell pressure testers for cooling systems.

    Just a quick idea.
     
  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    what year is your car? K or KE-jetronic? or bosch motronic?

    when you don´t loose water the headhasket is ok.
    also I never had a problem with 3 cylinders at the same time, normaly max 2 cylinders.

    I think it is an ignition problem. so the left bank only every 2nd cylinder is firing. and when the plugs not ignite the fuel air mixture it will smoke white and blue. the fuel will wipe the oil from the cylinder away, if you are lucky there is no more damage, but may be the piston(s) damaged already?
    so check the ignition ( distributor cap, rotor, wires ), then check compression and let us know please.
    also when I see the center electrode from the plugs ( round meanwhile as I see ) I think they are old with a lot of mileage?
    if you have an endoscope you may look into the cylinder and give pressure on the cooling system
    good luck :)
     
  4. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    The car is an 89 with an upgraded motec fuel injection setup. im going to do a compression test over the weekend
     
  5. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    Also sparkplugs were replaced 3 years ago
     
  6. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    so ignition is original with 2 distributors?
     
  7. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

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    How long has she been sitting.

    R
     
  8. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    Not long at all. Drove her over the winter a few times cause we had a warmish winter here in CT. Also drove her for like 60 miles just a few days ago.


    Ignition is stock but has MSD coils and ignition box.
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    then you may check first the compression
    and the the ditstributorcaps/rotors/wires
     
  10. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

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    What about any recent service work?

    R
     
  11. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Indeed, white smoke is typically coolant within the combustion chamber. Do you see traces of coolant, etc within the oil or on the dipstick? As a first step I would do a leak-down test to see the condition of the cylinders. It is not too complicated to do and will give you a lot of info on the state of your engine/cylinders.. i.e. during the test if you see bubbles appearing within your expansion tank then most likely your head gasket is knackered.

    Best of luck!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  12. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Is that plug oil soaked? Or fuel soaked? If thats oil soaked... thats a lot of oil...
     
  13. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    Just went and bought a compression tester. Going to test the cylinders. No water in oil. I also have to get a leakdown tester so I can check that as well. Have to order one and a coolant pressure tester. Car ran good except a very slight stumble at like 2500 rpm. But it had been doing that for a while. it just started smoking like crazy. I dont know how to post a video otherwise Id post it. No rattles knocks or anything.
     
  14. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Any chance you just aren't firing on one bank?

    Could you have jumped a tooth on the cam belt?

    Run the car, get a spark plug tester or timing light, and go from cylinder to cylinder and make sure they fire. Or, just remove the leads one by one, and see if one of them just doesnt make a difference...
     
  15. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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    The car ought not to be run until you do a leak down test.

    A bore scope may also be helpful.

    Check your timing marks as well (from the outside - hard to see). The scope can help here as well.

    Make sure the mechanicals are reasonably good before any more running time which may cause additional damage.

    Who knows (?) you may have a cracked piston. Likely not, but may as well approach your diagnosis method with full caution.

    Best Luck,
    Vincenzo
     
  16. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    This would be the smarter path ....
     
  17. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    All cylinders and coils are firing. I just did a compression check on all cylinders. Across the board they are at 160 with 3 at 165 and 2 at 170. That with a warmed up engine and throttle wide open. I also did a compression check with the car running at idle all compression readings were 110-115 when you gave it a little gas and reved it say to 3000rpm they all were 150psi. Now the interesting thing spark plug #7 pisses out oil with plug removed when turning engine over. This is why I believe plugs 7-9 are wet with oil. That bank of cylinders share 1 header and one exhaust pipe. I have a borla system with 4 cans. I believe the reversion waves are carrying oil back from header and wetting the other 2 plugs soaking them with oiil since they share the same header. If i Disconnect lead to cylinder 7 car stops smoking. Hopefully its a valve guide or head gasket and not piston ring. Im not going to drive car until I can pull engine out and take it apart. Unfortunately thats gonna be in a couple months because I have another car on the lift and I am redoing that at the moment.
    2 questions-what is the average compression reading on this motor?
    And two has anyone ever changed just one piston(worst case scenario) or do the whole setup and bump up compression a bit and since I have Motec engine management set up in car I can mess around with it
     
  18. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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    #18 vincenzo, May 6, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    You see I dont know when to check car for compression. I just did a search and saw contradicting posts. Some say a hot engine will give false results (On the low side). Others say do the test with warm engine. But all the readings are within 10% of each other which is good. And I found which cylinder is causing the smoke.
     
  20. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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    #20 vincenzo, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
    As long as your readings are consistent, I'd say all is good.

    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  21. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Puzzled...

    You checked compression on a running motor??? Never heard of that... Usually done with just the starter...

    Also scratching my head on having normal compression, yet spewing out oil...

    Can you do a leak down test?

    We're you having detonation and blew out your piston rings?

    Odd that this happened all of a sudden...

    Good luck
     
  22. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    Like I said I tried every way to do a compression test that I could except with a cold engine. I was told to do the running motor test because it will tell you if its in the heads or pistons. They say you get a certain compression result with engine idling and when you snap the rev and see how much the number increases it will tell you where the issue is. I dont know I just tried it. The numbers were still all the same. The funny thing is the cylinder with the oil coming out gave the best reading 170psi. But that could be because the oil is helping seal the rings better, I dont know. Really hoping its just a valve guide or something. Motor wasnt detonating or anything. Car ran smooth like a said a very slight hiccup at 2500 rpm in 5th gear but that was all. It has been doing that for a while. I just coughed that up to the programming in which Norwood put in the motec unit. Different climate in texas than Connecticut.
     
  23. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    And this just happened when I took it or a long ride 250miles. Have put like 4000 miles since I got it back from Norwood like 3-4 years ago. I drove it like 70 miles or so just a couple days ago as well with no issue
     
  24. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Your conclusion sounds good.

    A bad intake guide seal will smoke more off throttle - high vacuum condition. Smoke while on throttle infers rings.

    If it developed 'all of a sudden' - it infers breakage rather than wear. Be cautious about a broken ring or piston. A leak down test sounds like a good idea.

    Best Regards,
    Vincenzo
     
  25. ang308

    ang308 Formula Junior
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    Funny thing is when it first happened and while on throttle I wold get some blue smoke but when coasting or off throttle it was a dense white smoke. Smoked more when coasting then when stepping on gas. If I lightly toched the throttle minimal smoke. More gas a little more smoke (blue). Let off throttle a huge smoke cloud (white). Looked like the game Spyhunter with the smoke screen option
     

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