Rough cold start and inaccurate tachometer | FerrariChat

Rough cold start and inaccurate tachometer

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by PhantomFerrari, May 17, 2016.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
    First time poster, great forum. I'm helping a friend out with his Euro 87' TR. Cold starts are an issue and take a few minutes for idle to stabilize but even after that acceleration is pretty sluggish and tach will only read up to 3k even though the engine surpasses it. Once the engine is warm it will restart perfectly every time. I noticed the two crank sensors on the drivers side of the motor, the upper one looks quite new while the lower white sensor seems original. Can anyone point me in the right direction in terms of a quick diagnosis? Thanks in advance!
     
  2. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
    So I pulled the ignition cap and found points and rotor to be corroded, wires are brittle and look original, plugs look bad, and flywheel sensor looks like it needs to be swapped. It's a shame because about 6 months ago my friend brought his car to some Ferrari "professional" to be fixed, he paid over $2k for all this work that he didn't even do. I would post some pictures but I don't think I can since I'm new here.
     
  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,932
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    hello phantomferrari

    would be great if you could fill out your profile and also introduce yourself a little
    this will help you and also all members here
    thanks
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,146
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    What engine family? F113A or F113B?
     
  5. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Fill out your profile. Corroded dist cap does not explain why she runs fine once warm. A minor rough condition is not out of the norm but I mean a minor rough or should I say slight hunting. Cold start injectors thro some extra fuel so she is in a very rich condition. Why she won't exceed 3000 rpm is baffling to me. Once again those fly wheel sensors would still give you trouble even when warm. Could be that the mixture is off if she is really running rough when cold. Once the temp needle moves a bit the o2 sensors take over and control the mixture. I would eliminate the o2 sensors as well from the equation. If they where mixed up she would also run like ****. Ignition wires and or plugs would still give issue even when warm as well. Would love to hear her when she is cold. They don't like being cold and being so rich could lead to difficulty starting if you continue to shut her down and restart when cold. They also don't like that. Steve should chime in for some further diagnosis. Cleaning the cap and corrosion is a good idea since your in there.

    R
     
  6. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
    Thanks for the responses guys, I filled out my profile. I'm just another car guy that loves solving problems, I'm also currently in the restaurant business but am in the process of opening an auto performance/repair shop here in New York as it's been a life long dream of mine. The TR in question is actually an F113A040 Japanese market car which is pretty interesting in itself. It definitely revs over 3k but the tach does not pick anything up over that, and even though the car runs better when warmed up it still is sluggish. i really want to just replace the plugs, wires, caps, rotors, coils, and that crank sensor just to get the ignition system back up to par so I can get a better baseline before diagnosing anything else.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,146
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Nothing wrong with making sure that the ignition system is working well first -- and you should do that first (but a timing light should be able to let you confirm/deny that before buying a lot of expensive parts). Once you are happy with the ignition system working OK (and if you still have the cold-starting difficulty), I'd suggest that you start on the injection side with checking that the protection relay is working and supplying +12V to run the KE-Jet injection ECUs as described here:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/138953899-post18.html

    One "problem" with the Bosch CIS injection system is that it gets tweaked up when warm -- so it often happens that something fails, but the Mechanic wrongly starts tweaking things before actually figuring out what has failed. This can make warm-running seem quasi-OKish (since a bunch of stuff was tweaked to make it OKish), but cold-starting and cold-running well requires everything to be working correctly (not just warm-running being OKish). Good Hunting!
     
  8. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
    1,829
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Christian
    Have you confirmed both sides of the ignition are working/firing. The TR will run with only one half firing....not well, but run. It also sounds like you have two different problems, the engine and probably the tach. There is a small electronic board behind the tach. Mine would fail to register proper RPM's after about 30 minutes of driving. Bad circuit board, $200 fix from a good speedo shop.
     
  9. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
    I noticed the spring loaded button on the inside center of the LH distributor cap has lost it's spring ability and probably doesn't make good contact against the rotor which is definitely an issue. As far as the tach goes I'm gonna wait and see if the issue is still there after I get the car running perfectly again, otherwise it can be either the tach or the crank sensor at this point.
     
  10. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2013
    1,620
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Full Name:
    Joe
  11. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
  12. Mr.Chairman

    Mr.Chairman F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2008
    2,987
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Ignition wires I would get from Scuderia Rampante. He has the Taylor 7mm wires. He will make you a set. The factory wires even brand new wires are crap. Spend your money wisely.

    R
     
  13. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
    Ok great, thank you!!
     
  14. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
    1,829
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Christian
    Interesting, I did not know this. SR makes a good product, only makes sense that he offers a superior set of wires.
     
  15. PhantomFerrari

    May 10, 2016
    9
    New York
    Full Name:
    Greg Anagnostopoulos
    #15 PhantomFerrari, May 19, 2016
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
    Something interesting I noticed today, the last person who worked on this car removed the cork gasket on the RH distributor cap and didn't re install it when finished. Would putting back the distributor cap without the gasket affect spark transfer between the rotor element and the cap contacts since the it would be sitting a bit closer?
     

Share This Page