First Ferrari Purchase: TR/512TR | FerrariChat

First Ferrari Purchase: TR/512TR

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by sdematt, Aug 30, 2016.

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  1. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
    216
    Vancouver, Canada
    Full Name:
    Matt
    #1 sdematt, Aug 30, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
    Greetings, all.

    Some of you may remember me from almost a year ago joining to get some information on the Testarossa, but then I crossed to the dark side and a 911 became my first car. However, I'm in the market for my dream car, and I have some overall questions regarding owner experiences, market trends, and overall impressions.

    If anyone can answer any of the listed questions, please do chime in. I'd love to hear what you all have to say!

    A) If you've owned a Testarossa or a 512 (or ideally, both), did you enjoy it? What's your favourite part about it? Did you like the 512 or the TR better?

    B) Is now the right time to get into the market? It seems like prices on actual TRs have leveled off, as noted in the other thread. Is it worth saving for the 512TR instead? Or, is it better to get into the market and then upgrade later? I'm wondering if it's worth getting in, for fear of them getting out of reach financially.

    C) What are the biggest problems with ownership that you've had? If you've sold one, what made you want to sell it?

    D) Are different colours worth more money? Is repainting a viable option without destroying value completely? (Example: buying a cheaper black one and painting it red).

    E) Would anyone be willing to let me look at their TR/512TR or even possibly let me drive it? Locally, no one has one, and the local Ferrari Club branch hasn't been super helpful. I just want to see if it's an okay driving experience for me personally before I actually buy the thing. I'm a west coast Canadian, but I can fly to wherever (ideally North America).

    F) If I do get an original Testarossa, are the 512TR wheels that hard to come by to replace the original wheels?

    G) I'm currently looking at purchasing a late 1980's TR, black on black, 30,000 miles. Problem is, the belt service was last done at 21,000 miles in 2005, with the service record going back to 2000. Is this alarming? Asking price is about 100k USD, and the condition seems decent (haven't had an inspection, nor looked in person since it is across the country). Any advice on this car, or any other cars, would be appreciated.

    ---------

    Thank you all in advance for any help. I'd be happy to answer any other questions if it'll help get more valuable dialogue.

    -Matt
     
  2. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
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    Claude Laforest
    A lot of questions, get eady to be confused with answers from many different owners with all different point of view.

    I owned one, an original Canadian car.

    Loved it.

    Bought it when market was down on them and got a nice car for the price.

    My biggest concern when I bought was the diff, so I did it before driving even 1 mile and I had peace of mind and enjoyed the car.(this part of it)

    Car was a bit TOO nice for me to really enjoy as I would have like. I always felt guilty when I was using it. Putting more kilometers, affraid to get stone ships etc etc. This was one of the reason to make me sell it.

    Sold it for other project at a time when their value was high so it was a good move. I do regret to own a TR once in a while, they are great cars.

    I'm not sure the color affect value, it affect salability. Personally I'd buy a color I can live with even if not my prefered color and keep it stock for future selling reason. A TR is nice in almost any color. Mine was yellow.

    The 355 wheels can also be fitted and less rare for a very similar look. BUT!

    I personally prefer the TR over the 512TR look, but that is a personnal taste. If you prefer the 512TR buy a 512. Please don't buy a TR and try to make it look like a 512 with wheels and repainted lower body color.

    I'd buy one again anytime if I would find the correct car for me at the right price. A rougher one with some miles to enjoy with no fear.

    Good luck in your search and I hope this helped a bit.
     
  3. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    #3 Melvok, Aug 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Matt, good that you go and ask all thes Qs !

    But it's a lot at one time.

    A. Yes I owned one hell of a 512TR, bought it al low prices (K€ 65) and it was IMPRESSIVE !

    Had lots of mechanical and electrical trouble ... and sold it a year ago ... DO read this ALL ! MORE :D !

    You must be willing to buy an OLD CAR ... with all its problems.

    Very hard clutch, no powersteering, heavy and big car ...

    But ... it's an icon ...

    B. Prices are going down here in Europe, were TR (Testarossa) prices at K€ 140 a year ago, they are now around K€ 100.

    C. My diff went ... and that cost me a YEAR to rebuild it at a reasonable price (about K€ 15 !!) Parts can be not availble if needed ...

    D. It's your choice, dont't bother. But of course a repaint ruins the oem value ...

    E. I can not help you as you are not in EU !

    F. Wheels can be found ... at a price ... and only if your TR is a 5-lugs version already ...

    G. It's ideal that you have to let do the belts and big-service. Get K$ 15 off the asking price for that.

    Don't get me wrong, we loved our 512TR ... but it was time to move from an old icon to a modern F car. We don't regret that at all.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. Rene

    Rene Formula 3
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    Jan 5, 2004
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    Hi, Matt.

    Have owned a TR and a 512TR. I found the TR to be more comfortable, which was important because I didn't drive often but when I did, it was over long distances (up to 750 miles in a day). I assume the spring settings were softer on the TR, but others here can give you more technical information.

    The 512 felt more modern and was prone to less niggles. It felt tighter to drive although, again, I think of these cars as GTs rather than the nimbler Ferrari eights. You get used to a car with no assisted steering and a heavy clutch.

    I bought each car second-hand, from an independent Ferrari specialist. I added 50,000 miles to the 512 and sold it for more than I paid, but in the meantime spent heavily on service and maintainance.

    I have stopped driving because of eyesight problems. Had it not been for this, I would have kept the 512, which I loved. During my long-distance drives, mostly through France, I'd encounter thunderstorms, heat-waves, heavy traffic, the full lot. The car never missed a beat.
     
  5. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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  6. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    the 512tr is one of the greatest cars ever made.
     
  7. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
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    Sounds silly, but can you tell the difference in the 390 vs the 420 between the TR and the 512TR? Is it worth it to, say, tuning the engine of having work done to boost the TR's HP up to the 512TR's?

    -Matt
     
  8. tvu

    tvu Formula 3
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    I think there is a lot of differences besides the HP, with brakes being the biggest one I think. I think someone wrote up a pretty good summary if you search for it. If you can't find it, I'll look for it tonight.
     
  9. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Jan 14, 2011
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    I've driven several of both models and ended up with a 512TR.
    I did 480 miles last weekend on rt100 in VT, it was spectacular and the car did not miss a beat.
    Better brakes, larger wheels/tyres, lower engine in the chassis etc. all improve driving at speed and more predictable.
    Modern EFI helps too with the engine, more so for drivability than just the extra HP IMHO.
    I regularly drive mine to work through traffic etc. no issues.

    I don't think you should put 512TR wheels on a TR...
    Buy what you like the look and feel of, drive and enjoy!
     
  10. tvu

    tvu Formula 3
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  11. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
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    Vancouver, Canada
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    Matt
    Funnily enough, the opening poster is also named Matt :)

    Thanks! I'll keep reading and keep you all posted. Any advice is welcome! :)
     
  12. lafluth

    lafluth Karting

    Jul 2, 2013
    61
    #12 lafluth, Sep 1, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
    Hello Matt,

    Having owned a 512TR for over 3 years now, here are my thoughts:

    A) This has been my favourite car by far, and the only one I have kept. I like to try many different things, but this one is very special: great dogleg manual 5 speed, comfortable, fast, nimble, a joy to drive, completely analogue, looks amazing, gets so much positive attention, etc. Definitely not a track car, but in my opinion the ideal car for anyone who enjoys driving, whether for a fun Sunday drive or a long trip. OH, and the sound of the flat 12, revving up towards 7k... with aftermarket exhaust, the stock exhaust is a bit too quiet for my taste.

    B) Right time to buy one is when you can afford it... Prices go up and down. That being said prices have come down some so not a bad time. Can they go lower? Sure. Can they go higher? They will, but could be some time. If you can only afford a Testarossa now, it could be a good idea to buy it now and "upgrade" to a 512TR later, as both prices seem to move together.

    C) Electrics/electronics definitely not the most reliable (surprise!). Had left bank cut out. Good news is it is easy to fix. Also had oil leaking from one of the gaskets, but also was easy to fix. Otherwise bullet proof if it has been well maintained.

    D) Seems some colors can attract higher value, but in my opinion this is only due to rarity. Black or blue or white for instance are rare and therefore can command a premium. But red will always be more "liquid" in the market.

    E) Happy to, but you would need to come over to Europe!

    F) Please no, keep the Testarossa stock! But if that is what you want to do, I have seen quite a few Testarossas with 512TR wheels, so it should be doable. Obviously would need to be a later model.

    G) PPI and inspect yourself, mandatory. I have seen quite a few before I bought mine.

    Good luck, and keep us posted!
     
  13. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
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    Matt
    Would any of you ever buy without PPI from a Ferrari dealer?

    The one I'm going to look at in a few weeks is in the middle of nowhere - 8 hour drive from the nearest Ferrari dealer. What are the big things I should I look for when I inspect the car myself? Rust in certain places? Leaks in certain places?

    -Matt
     
  14. lafluth

    lafluth Karting

    Jul 2, 2013
    61
    I probably would, but have never done so not sure. Also depends if they give you a warranty I guess.

    Yes rust definitely, eg on the strakes, and the file and history are very important. For the test drive, make sure you start it from cold.
     
  15. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    #15 godabitibi, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
    Unplug the fuse box connectors and look for burnt or heated spots. Check if heater control is all working. Let it idle to see if both radiator fan start. Coolant leak from the water pump if you have access to a lift. Other than that it's like any other car. A road test and visual inspection. Dealer don't do much more than that except a compression and leak test. A good local shop can do this too.

    But if it's the one on Manitoulin island I'm not sure there is a shop to do it.

    Good luck have fun!

    PS, when I sold mine the F dealer in Toronto just did a short low speed drive around the dealership for the drive test. I told the buyer myself the brakes were shaking a bit at higher speed because they did not found that. Everything they found I had allready told him before. So basically he just spent money for nothing.
     
  16. sherrillt

    sherrillt Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 1, 2009
    1,053
    Northern Virginia
    Q.A) If you've owned a Testarossa or a 512 (or ideally, both), did you enjoy it? What's your favorite part about it?

    A. Own a 512TR nice car. Enjoy very much as not only a fun drive with a great sound - it's a piece of art sitting in the garage with Iconic looks

    Q.B) Is now the right time to get into the market? It seems like prices on actual TRs have leveled off, as noted in the other thread. Is it worth saving for the 512TR instead? Or, is it better to get into the market and then upgrade later? I'm wondering if it's worth getting in, for fear of them getting out of reach financially.

    A. If you want one and can afford it - buy one! Stop BSing and fidgeting - No one thinks about "is it the right time to buy a new or used Corvette". They accept depreciation as a fact and either live with it or lease the car and that's the perspective I have and that I recommend. treat it for what it is...A CAR. Buy it, drive it, and enjoy it.

    Too many whacked out people look at these things as investments and lose sight and enjoyment of what should be just a nice hobby. If it appreciates GREAT! and if not, oh well...it's just a car.


    Q.C) What are the biggest problems with ownership that you've had?

    A. NONE. I now have 30k miles on my car that I've primarily logged all the miles and can report I have had NO problems - No Diff issues, No fuse box issues, nothing that you hear about on the board....just the standard services, A/C recharge, breaks, broken fog light lens (from driving), etc. Solid car.

    Some guys profess to know the cars but have hardly driven 2-3k miles in them. Dont just ask how long someone has had a car...but how many miles have they actually driven one!


    Q.D) Are different colours worth more money? Is repainting a viable option without destroying value completely? (Example: buying a cheaper black one and painting it red).

    A. In Ferrari land Red is king and tends to be the in demand color. DO NOT REPAINT! Sure fire way to cause problems if you want to sell. Do a wrap instead.

    Q.E) Would anyone be willing to let me look at their TR/512TR or even possibly let me drive it? Locally, no one has one, and the local Ferrari Club branch hasn't been super helpful. I just want to see if it's an okay driving experience for me personally before I actually buy the thing. I'm a west coast Canadian, but I can fly to wherever (ideally North America).

    A. Im east coast US - PM me if you want

    Q.F) If I do get an original Testarossa, are the 512TR wheels that hard to come by to replace the original wheels?

    A. No they are available

    Q.G) I'm currently looking at purchasing a late 1980's TR, black on black, 30,000 miles. Problem is, the belt service was last done at 21,000 miles in 2005, with the service record going back to 2000. Is this alarming? Asking price is about 100k USD, and the condition seems decent (haven't had an inspection, nor looked in person since it is across the country). Any advice on this car, or any other cars, would be appreciated.

    A. No - just check it out if it's sound. Get it serviced and reconditioned.
     
  17. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
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    #17 sdematt, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
    It is, is the problem. Guy seems super nice, but it looks like it hasn't been to a Ferrari dealer in over ten years, and getting the car to Ferrari in Toronto seems like a pain in the ass. My driving out there? Also a pain in the ass. :p

    So, an update:

    I've booked a flight to see this car. I have 12 hours with the car before I have to leave again (cross country travel on a weekend is the worst).

    ---------------

    Clutch question: I'm currently in a 2001 Carrera, and that has the self adjusting clutch pedal - I've been told it'll go rock hard once the clutch is wearing away. Right now, it's very manageable.

    What will the clutch feel like/what SHOULD it feel like assuming it's all good? Can I feel via the clutch pedal how much it has left in any way? Should it feel stiff like an older American car, or somewhere in between the Porsche and something older?

    Sorry for all the questions, I just have to basically do the cost vs. benefits and see what the car needs before offering a fair price.
     
  18. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    #18 godabitibi, Sep 2, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
    What you describe self adjusting clutch is probably just a hydarulic clutch. You don't feel the wear on a hydraulic clutch. The TR has a constant contact release bearing and the hydraulic adjust the pedal travel automatically. You won't feel anything on the pedal.

    Maybe Newman can take a ride in his 400 or even his BB to do the PPI, he's not too far. About 300km but he would have to wait for the ferry boat ;)

    Just reread the sellers ad, it's got the fuse box upgrade. Also from the description the past owner seem to have the electrical sorted out. Personally if the car look like a good cared for car I would'nt worry too much. Give it a good road test and if it rides ok just figure it now need a major service.
     
  19. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

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    Awesome, thank you Claude :)

    I'll also take video and pictures and post them on here for analysis.
     
  20. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    That would be great!
     
  21. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Any news?
    What does the car look like?
     
  22. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

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    Had to book the flight for Sept 24th, couldnt get the time off class.

    The seller is sending me more photos today and tomorrow. Ill post what I have so far today/tomorrow.

    Im hoping that by getting into this one now, I can get into a red 512tr maybe in a couple of years :)
     
  23. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Ok keep us posted.
     
  24. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

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    So, an update:

    Pictures and stuff on the ol' Google Drive.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B15-O6G5m7HCM0FOSUdkejQyaG8

    Feel free to peruse at your leisure.

    Info gained:

    1) Picture of the new fusebox is on the ad that was posted earlier in the thread, doesn't want to upload to the drive. Weird.

    2) Small claim in 2015 for 1300. I'll ask the seller, but you can't buy much for 1300. I assume scrape/respray. How much does this hurt the value?

    3) Limited service record. Current owner did the repairs himself. So, my question is this: if I buy the car, and then proceed to have all the work done by a good shop to update anything that WOULD have needed to be done, does that offset past repairs that are off the record, so to speak? Like, does it matter than an oil change in 1995 was done at home as long as all that stuff is good now and checked by Ferrari?

    4) Tubi exhaust, but not sure if the original comes with the car. Is this a deficit? If I get the car, should I get an original exhaust as well, in terms of desirability? What about the wheels?

    5) Is the injection system the same between the 512TR and the 88.5 TR? An old VW/Porsche mechanic friend of mine said the injection system as also used in Benz/Porsche back in the day, and there were quite a few problems. Did anyone here have any problems? Thoughts on updating/upgrading and hurting the value vs. improving reliability/performance?

    5.2) No info on amount of remaining clutch. Differential undone, belt service needing to be done in like 3,000 miles. So there's 20k sitting right there...

    6) Thoughts overall from you all?
     
  25. lafluth

    lafluth Karting

    Jul 2, 2013
    61
    Hi Matt,

    Looking at the pictures, this looks like a well looked after car with the tools, schedoni luggage (shouldn't they be black like the interior, or perhaps they were all tan?), nice interior, etc. If it were me, if I had a good feeling about the car I would do a testdrive, get a PPI done by a specialist and go for it.

    The car is not concourse original (512TR wheels, chrome horse not black, aftermarket pedals?) so Tubi should not be a concern. If anything if you do not like it you should be able to sell it for decent money. But aftermarket exhaust on TR/512 is a must IMO for a driver.

    Regarding the wheels it is a question of taste but I would definitely put originals back on!

    Good luck and let us know how it goes!
     

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