Thinking of selling my 512M, what are they trading for ? | FerrariChat

Thinking of selling my 512M, what are they trading for ?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by WILLIAM H, Oct 14, 2016.

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  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    I think they're trading around $300,000 but there's only 75 cars in USA so very little trading.
     
  2. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2006
    4,887
    Troy, Michigan
    Full Name:
    James
  3. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
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    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
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    Claude Laforest
    Hagerty value them from $297 to $455K.
     
  4. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    17,769
    NYC. / E. Hampton
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    Michael
    Mileage is paramount concern
    Imo
    38,000 mile M is worth less than a 5000 mile TR
     
  5. Tokei-ski

    Tokei-ski Karting

    Nov 4, 2014
    58
    Tokyo/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    The Baron
    William,

    I hope I may be able to offer you some guidance. The car posted by Schulz308 was my old car that recently sold at auction for ~$275,000. It was a spectacular low mileage car, and although I was disappointed at the result, I think it gives a very clear indication of where the market is currently. I sent the car to auction in the hope that it would be the best way to achieve its maximum value which I thought was in the region of $500,000. RM/Sotheby's did a superb job at marketing the car, so I take the result as a very accurate indication of the market.

    I completely understand that U.S.A. cars carry a premium, but I believe it is slowly becoming smaller, and will continue to do so until R.O.W. cars are eligible for importation in 2020.

    The cars on offer at Marshall Goldman and Cauley are, in my opinion, fishing. The two cars at Marshall Goldman have been in inventory for a long time, and they have recently been reduced in price, although not nearly enough to reflect the current market.

    If you have a look at mobile.de you can see there are 21 F512M on offer, with most in the $200,000~$300,000 range, and none are selling. In fact there has been very little activity in the last 6 months, with almost all of the same cars sitting and slowly being reduced in price.

    Various auction results outside of my car also paint a similar picture. Michael Sheehan was also recently selling a U.S.A. version car, and I believe reduced the price on the 9th September from $299,500 to $279,500. I do not know the current status of this particular car.

    I will also point out that RM/Sotheby's has a car coming up for auction in Italy on the 27th-29th November and this car is being sold with no reserve, so it will also give a very good indication of where the market is in terms of normal mileage cars.

    My personal opinion of where a current "normal" mileage (15,000-35,000) U.S.A. version car is valued would be in the low $200,000 area, and even at that price, a buyer may be difficult to find as we head into winter.

    These cars have seen a big run up in value over the last couple of years, and although prices are well off the highs, we are still above pre 2013 pricing. The run up in prices has brought many cars to market, and as a result buyers feel no pressure, can be extremely selective and negotiate very aggressively. A classic "buyers market". This is in sharp contrast to late 2014/2015 when cars were being snapped up instantly at full asking price and sometimes above as multiple buyers fought for the same car. At that time cars were hard to find and it was a "sellers market".

    Regarding Michael's comment above, I think it becomes very difficult to compare values of different versions with different mileages. If we then add in the U.S.A. vs R.O.W. differential it becomes almost impossible. It is well known that the value ranking for the Testarossa/512TR/F512M series from low to high goes: Testarossa/Flying Mirror Testarossa/512TR/ 1994 512TR/F512M.

    I can only point back to my ex car which was just sold at auction:

    1995 Ferrari F512 M | London 2016 | RM Sotheby's

    I am pretty sure a more original "preservation" level F512M cannot be found. This car was completely untouched and still had the original tires (in perfect condition), underhood foam, inspection markings, etc. It had less than 2,500 miles, had a known history back to the original owner, and had all the previous registration documents to verify the mileage as correct. With this car having sold for a confirmed ~$275,000, I think you then need to work backwards to account for higher mileage, flaws, etc.

    I would also like to state that lest anyone think I am "talking the market down" or trying to otherwise negatively impact prices, I still own another F512M so this would be against my best interests. I am just a lover of these cars, and like to see individual buyers and sellers make decisions with their best interests in mind. I say that only because dealers and other buyers/sellers always act with their best interests in mind, and so should you. I believe some recent buyers at what I consider way above market prices would be in for a tremendous shock if they want to turn around and try to sell their cars (for whatever reason). It wouldn't surprise me to see the dealers offering to buy the cars back at 30% or less of the price they sold the cars for.

    In the end, it all comes down to what you want to achieve. If you want to try to extract the maximum value, then an auction or consignment listing with a dealer/broker is probably best. If you want the car to go to an individual and are not concerned about squeezing the last $ from the sale, then list it here on Fchat with an aggressive price and keep it in the community.

    Whatever you decide in the end, best of luck and sorry that you have to let her go. I am certain you will miss her greatly as soon as she is out the door.

    Kind regards
     
  6. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,349
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    That was a great post..thanks for that.
     
  7. versamil

    versamil Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2013
    1,147
    Gaston, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Brian Healy
    Thanks to posters like Tokei-ski, Ferrari Chat is one of the best sites on the net. I read some other posts on this car, and a big thank you to Sokei-ski for his input on the market. I second that for being a great, well written post. Nice to read posts so well thought out and articulate.

    Maybe to the Hubbster the 512M isn't clicking the right buttons anymore. Any real reason on thinking of selling the car? So many newer cars are just SO good I can kind of relate. I drove my Testarossa one time last summer but put 5000 miles on a 458 Spider, loving every minute of it.
     
  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
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    Ross
    william. dont sell it. you dont need the money. and you wont be able to replace the memories.
     
  9. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
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    Mel
    Look at the production figures: in 10 years prices may have tripled ... you never know :D
     
  10. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
    Full Name:
    Darius
    The gentleman who bought Tokei-ski's car was very canny indeed - he posted on Fchat himself. That car, regardless of 'no services' and Japan, will be worth a lot more than what he paid, in a couple of years. I was amazed at the selling price but we are post Brexit, pre US election, mid China uncertainty, etc.

    Asking prices. Everything Tokei-ski says is right, only Nine of the 20 (by my count now) Ms on mobile.de are asking more than 300,000 euros with one asking more than 500,000 (no chance). Two years ago when I bought mine, there were zero cars advertised for more than 200,000 euros until the first broke that barrier (Dutch car, 215k) in Oct 2014.

    I know a quite good (7/10) LHD sold at an official Ferrari dealer this month in the UK for 190k GBP.

    take a close look at the offerings on mobile and autoscout and call the dealers, a really nice M won't be yours for less than the low-mid 200 euros.

    All of this of little help to the OP because the US is its own market for Ms, auction sale this summer could be indicative.

    But I wouldn't sell now if you don't have to.
     
  11. David_S

    David_S F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    Mountains of WNC...
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    David S.
    Pretty sure you have that backwards. There are 300,000 of them in the USA, and they are trading a bit under $75k each. Sign me up! ;)
     
  12. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
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    Darius
    William, I am loving your personal profile. :)
     
  13. tvu

    tvu Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    1,310
    Southern California
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    Trieu
    Wait, are you selling the 95 512M Slutmobile? I'm guessing you wanted a ballpark number for a "regular" US 512M as a base price and then determine the X value for a convertible/spider option - which is one of a kind?
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    FL
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    Sean
    Not that its directly relevant. But from the looks of things TRs are selling for close on 50% of what was once the high ask.

    I agree with those who say if you dont need to sell now then dont. Of course one may have to wait for the enxt car price cycle, which could be 2 years to a decade away. In any event the next cycle will make current prices seem tame.

    Remember the mid 90s, 200k 288s and F40s. Look how those cars multiplied.
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    you can not compare "super cars" with TR`s
    only think about the production numbers
     
  16. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    Whenever an opportunity arises the next car I would purchase is an F40, to me that is the best looking car to be ever produced
     
  17. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Nov 17, 2003
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    Michael
    Funny how the 512TR was the Ferrari Flagship of its time..it was the La Ferrari of the 90's
    Just hasn't graduated to immortality yet...Give it Time, it will...
     
  18. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    Design wise to me its up there as "La F" of the 90's, good terminology.
     
  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    sure it was the flagship - but not a super car, also to much built
     
  20. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
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    Darius
    Speaking of supercars, there were fewer F512Ms built than there were F40s, Daytonas, 275s, 599 GTOs or F12 TdFs.
     
  21. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    Correct
     
  22. Schulz308

    Schulz308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2014
    1,450
    STL USA
    I am a huge fan of the Testarossa but as far as comparing the 512TRM to very low production model values such as the F40, Daytona

    The F40 etc are entirely unique cars in of themselves. Not a cosmetic refresh of an existing 9K+ production run.

    Just sayin.
     
  23. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,252
    Eastdown
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    Darius
    True, of course, for F40 and Daytona (but not for 599 GTO, F12 TdF, etc).

    You could argue it both ways about cosmetic refresh, looking at certain Porsches which are all refreshes of a 911.

    But I would suggest M was more than cosmetic - engine internal weight reduced by 13kg thru use of titanium, etc, is not the same as just redesigning headlamps and bumpers.
     
  24. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,659
    FL
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    Sean
    I have a New from the factory 512m engine in a box. Now I need a BB shell to make the ultimate BB competizione.
     

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