87 TR will not start

OK, you've piqued our interest, but we're going to need a little more explanation about that . Seriously, there has to be some sort of high-current capable switch(es), or relay(s), somewhere -- you can't run two Bosch CIS pumps off a hot lead from the ignition switch. Consequently, diagnostic steps that make sense doing on an unmodified system might not be useful at all on a modified system (but you did rightly to try the violet wire test if the tachometric relay is still present and seem to still be connected). If you can describe/find the modifications, glad to help/comment if I can, but need more information about the mods.

 

I have never seen a TR with no relays for fuelpumps ... (I will follow this thread to see this will be solved)

You are in the best hands here possible with Steve !

Good Luck !

 

no fuel pump relais? this never can work then
could you please post some pictures from the fuse- relais box to see clearer?

just put 12V plus directly to the pumps and see if they work. also check ( - ) minus/ground at the pumps

 

Eeeck! That looks seriously crazy. It appears that both fuel pumps are now connected to the (single) relay that runs the air conditioning system (so the tachometric relay is completely out of the picture and the fuel pumps would run whenever the key is "on").

First, have you checked the AC fuse? I don't see how it wouldn't blow if it was running both fuel pumps and the AC (or even just both fuel pumps).

The contact in the k white connector with the big brown wire usually gets burned up just running the air conditioning system. Putting the current of both fuel pumps thru it is way too much (even if the air conditioning system is off). I'd suggest that you unplug that k white connector and inspect the condition of the male and female connectors for that brown wire. If by some miracle, they aren't burnt to a crisp, try replacing the AC system relay (which would also be way overloaded running both fuel pumps - even if the AC system was off).

As a quick first check, if you turn the key "on", push an AC button, and set the cabin fan speed to maximum -- but the cabin fan doesn't work at all = that confirms there's probably something bad in the AC fuse-AC relay-brown wire in k connector food chain.

 

where go the red wires connected to the white?

 

You are saying that a PO at some point bypassed the pump relays in the panel and powered the power from some other source and now the car will not start? If thats the case the only thing to be done is trace the wires back to where they tapped into power. That or the pump(s) have gone bad. Sorry, I don't know if TR's have 1 or 2 pumps

 

Might be a good time to pull the panel and send it to Scuderia Rampante for an upgrade.

Then while it is out, you can have better access to return the spagetti to OEM. Give 'em a call - I would imagine that they will help you in your efforts. With their help and Steve's input you can put the issues behind you once and for all.

Best Luck,
Vincenzo

 

That's pretty damning evidence, but I can't really recommend that you just "fix" what you have now -- way too much fire/meltdown risk, and you've lost the safety feature that turns the fuel pumps off in a bad crash. The sad part is that this "modification" was probably all driven by the white connectors for the fuel pump(s) getting burnt. All you would need to do to get back to something more reasonable is "umbilical" out some ...101 relays from the existing fuel pump relay sockets connecting 87-to-87, 87a-to-87a, 85-to-85, and 86-to-86. The output wires going to the fuel pumps would be connected to the terminal 30 of each added relay (these output wires to the fuel pumps are labeled beige and beige-black on the schematic, but often look more brown and brown-black). Otherwise, it's the SR route Vincezo recommended (and they do essentially the same thing, adding remote relays to bypass the white connectors).

 

This!

 

This is the back side view of your fusebox with the connections inside (mirror view from the front side). You can check how the wires are now and how the have to be connected. Fuel pump relays T and R are on the left side !
New fuseboxes are (much cheaper) also available at Ferrari Remanufactured Parts for your Ferrari classic cars like fuseboxes and other

Guido
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Nice Guido ! Thanx

I see wires above the word FERRARI ... is there maybe a separate fusebox with relays behind that panel ??

 

The colorcodes in this diagram are only mentioned to have a clearer view...those are not the colorcodes for the incoming wires.
As you see the 2 big + connectors are connected. I use this diagram to make those fuseboards sold by that website. Instead of 2 separated loops of the positif, I make 1 loop in circle, connecting all + to that 2 big connectors.
The black wires from b7 going to w4 are the negatif, those are connected to chassis/negatif battery.

Guido

 

You may trying pulling the metal box cover off the 2 fuel pump relays and reinstall them on the mother board, try and check if the low current trigger circuit on the relays are still working. Basically the Scuderia Rampante upgrade runs a wire off the trigger circuit of the high power draw relays, into a stand alone relays and fuse box, then tied downstream into the wire harness, bypassing the motherboard.

 

For half that price you have a new fusebox from Guido...

Enzo52

 

Even better, you can duplicate the SR upgrade for around $175 in parts if you can do some basic wiring. It's not that hard.

 

Correct .... but he Scuderia Rampante is extreme good and well known for quality ... you can mention that when you sell the can one day (invoice) ...

 

Les, I hope this doesnt come across the wrong way but I would like to hear more of your TR adventures. In other words, dont be a stranger to the forum. We all learn from the collective knowledge of problems and solutions.

Keep the blue side up.

 

I'm not trying to market anything here, just trying to help a fellow TR owner save himeself $2k for a store bought repair.

 

Personally, I would not buy a car with hacked wiring. It is far too difficult to assess the quality or engineering behind the changes during a sale.

If a known repair was completed (like the SR modification) the 'hack' issues go away.

Cheers,
Vincenzo

 

I have the SR fusebox upgrade in my Testarossa. The best money I ever spent on the car.