512 TR gearbox failure | FerrariChat

512 TR gearbox failure

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Elsi, Mar 28, 2017.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    #1 Elsi, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Last Sunday I was driving my 512 TR over a nice small mountain here in Switzerland. When I wanted to change from 1st to 2nd gear nothing happened. The gearbox was in “neutral” and the gear lever was stuck in 1st gear with no chance to move it.

    First I hoped that it might be just the linkage but my mechanic called me today and sent me the pics you can see below: Broken 1st gear and damaged main shaft. This is just the first analysis before taking the motor and gearbox out.

    Now I need parts or a gearbox that has been rebuilt and is in good condition (I don’t want to have another gearbox that breaks sometime later.). Any hint where to find parts/gearbox will be appreciated very much!

    Mel once mentioned that he did his gearbox at BB-Motors in Germany. Do they have parts or are they searching for parts if I would send the gearbox to them? Do you recommend this shop or are there other shops that are specialized for rebuilding TR gearboxes?

    My mechanic is very experienced and already did several TR gearboxes. The problem are the parts and if I could find a shop that does the whole rebuilding including the parts this would be the best solution to me.

    Thanks in advance

    Markus
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Oowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !

    Gute Zeit um den ganze GB jetzt zu "renovieren"! Now is the time to refurbish the complete GB imo !

    BB Motors in Stuhr (here also known as Cavalino.. ) is the only one I can recommend.

    Slow but reliable and good. GB building is a real profession ! Get the forza Components diff now also.

    And get the clutch refurbished ... all in once.

    KEEP US POSTED ... as mentionned -> THIS will happen to all TR and 512TR gearboxes, it is only WHEN will it happen ...

    Good Luck Markus.
     
  3. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Yes, of course.

    I just called BB-Motors in Germany and he said he could do it in 3-4 weeks time. He has the parts or can machine them by a company near him.

    So anyone who know this company and has good or bad experiences?

    Markus
     
  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    hello markus
    I´m still in thailand but at home I have all parts what you would need.
    will be back 20th of april
    just think over about a stronger diff then, only a little more work
     
  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    There is a used one out of a write off car on e bay, from a seller in the UK but £18 000.
     
  6. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Hey Romano

    Great to hearing from you! That would be a good option bringing my car to you! Thanks a lot.

    Not sure if I can wait until 20th of April though… But would be glad to have my GB repaired by you.

    Enjoy your time in Thailand!

    Markus
     
  7. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    used one for this money? for this amount you can overwhaul the gearbox and know then what you have
     
  8. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Thanks Mike! Very appreciated. But £18 000 is way more expensive than what BB Motors said so far. Plus, I might have the same problem some months later.

    Markus
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    markus, I told you that I will be back 20th april, but before end of mai I would have no time to start with your gearbox. too much work already until then. but if you or your mechanic need parts you could pick them up after the 20th april

    but such a broken gear I never have seen :( :( :(
     
  10. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Hi Romano

    Thanks, that’s a good option too!

    Markus
     
  11. MM355

    MM355 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2008
    1,151
    GMT + 3
    Can you elaborate why the gearbox's will break with time ? I know that the differential is one of the weakest links of these cars.
     
  12. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    My mechanic told me that he has never seen a broken diff, but several broken gearboxes of TRs. Looks like the diff is not the only weak point.

    Markus
     
  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    what your mechanic understand under:
    broken gearboxes?
    pictures?
    description?
    I never have seen gearboxes broken only without any other damage. always if gearboxes ( so the gearbox-case/housing ) are damaged it is a part of other failure in the gearbox
     
  14. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Sorry if this was unclear. Of course not broken GB housings but gears. I meant the GB as a whole (with gears) and not just the housing.
     
  15. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    #15 Elsi, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    I must admit i throught it was a bit steep at 18 000, there are pics of the TR after the accident , front end all gone but back half ok
     
  17. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
    4,254
    Eastdown
    Full Name:
    Darius
    Markus, I was very sorry to hear this. I hope you can resolve it soon and be back on your favourite roads, without too much $$$$ and pain.
     
  18. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,240
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    markus i feel for you man. sorry this happened....i am dreading the day it might befall me.

    from what you say though, i would go the route of BB and rebuild the gearbox. use the stronger parts recommended as well. this way you will have a much stronger and reliable box that you actually have seen the inside of - more peace of mind.
     
  19. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,112
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    #19 Melvok, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think you have now 2 splendid contacts; maybe Romano can help you on the broken parts, you order the diff and new clutchplate (Superformance) and ask Andree to rebuild ...

    You are lucky we can tell you the way to go; I hadt to find it all out myself :eek:

    But: it may cost you the full season (not driving I mean) ...

    Consider: how to get it fixed: bring the car on a trailer or remove the GB yourself ...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,010
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #20 Rifledriver, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    Quite common. I used to have a box full of gears that looked just like that.

    The gears are being made.
     
  21. Elsi

    Elsi Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 26, 2010
    1,630
    Zürich (Switzerland)
    Full Name:
    Markus
    Thanks to all for the kind words! I appreciate it very much! It’s not just the money but also the fact that my car is down and it will take some time until it is back on the road again. Fortunately, I have a 575M too, but the 512 TR is so special compared to the more modern Maranello.

    Markus
     
  22. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    until now I only have seen gears with missing or broken teeth, but never gears broken in 3 parts. but good to learn :)
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,010
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #23 Rifledriver, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
    1st and 2nd drive gears are too thin. The distance between the major diameter of the internal spline and the root of the gear teeth does not provide enough strength.

    In any event the gear pictured was bad from poor lubrication. A better oil and more frequent changes are in order when it goes back together. That is just plain poor service. Badly pitted and wearing off the hard facing? Bad show all around. I sure hope the ring gear looks better or this is going to be an expensive fix.
     
  24. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,921
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    this pitting I also have seen often, but never so bad as here now. so bad or too old oil is one of the reasons, also may be to warm/hot oil during driving.

    sad to see this at the beginning of the new season :(, but good markus, that you have an other F to enjoy also
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,010
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    If the oil does not prevent that when hot it is the wrong oil. It is not acceptable or normal.
     

Share This Page