McLaren Depreciation 12-C: a nightmare- werewolf?

Agree, also Ferrari are on the record to produce fewer cars which in turn protects values. Add the 7 year maintenance program and it becomes a very attractive proposition.

Recently McLaren in Australia reduced the new price of coupes and spiders by AUD100k. That's a huge drop in anyone's language, imagine paying full ticket and then a massive price reduction gets announced 18 months later!

I sincerely hope McLaren continue to build great cars and lead with innovation, not sure about other markets but pitching the 12C at the 458 was bad judgement as we have just witnessed in Oz.

 

+1

 

In the UK 458 prices are falling just as quickly as MP4-12C. That includes 458 Spider, already a big supply of second hand cars available often being offered at prices well below the sticker price. Trade in price will be much lower. In the same second hand space you have 458, MP4-12C and Gallardo. I was offered a Gallardo last month, very high spec, under a year old and 3k miles. Looked brand new when I saw it. £70k ($112k) below what purchaser payed new. There are plenty of extremely wealthy guys who don't care about a first year big depreciation loss just want latest and greatest from each manufacturer and keep for 6 to 12 months. I know at least 2 guys who do this.

Ferrari plan to build 7000 cars in 2013 for global demand and the biggest chunk of that are 458. That is alot of cars for a specialist brand and Ferrari long ago stopped worrying about second hand prices. I cancelled my 458 Spider order, I'll get one at some point in future but second hand only - let someone else take the big depreciation!

Perhaps it's different in the US, but seems unlikely with the number of cars Ferrari are producing these days. Only the limited edition specials ever retain their values in the long term, everything else made as regular production (Lambo, Ferrari, Mclaren, Porsche etc) will have a big depreciation coming over the next few years as new prices for these latest generation of cars rose very quickly from where cars like the 430 cost new.

 

True, but it's not only McLaren. Porsche, Rolls Royce and some other manufacturers did the same too.

 

it's only the US that new Ferraris are able to withstand normal depreciation exhibited by exotic cars such as the 458 and MP4. if you look at europe and other countries, the story isn't the same and pricing on ferraris drop pretty big as well.

however, it can't be denied that it sucks for the brand new buyer that likes to flip cars often. he's going to take a big haircut. as for me, i'm taking it in stride because so long as you don't need to sell, then there's no loss. it has happened to me in the past when i got my bnew murcielago back in 2003. that car depreciated like 50% in 3 years if you were to sell it. i still have it until now and probably lost another $10K from that in 10 years -not too bad at all. i hope the mclaren will stabilize also in price in the future once more people realize how good of a car it is.

 

I hope McLaren, survive and thrive, anyone that saw Leno drive the P1 will appreciate just how good their engineering is. That will only flow through to the 12C replacement.
At the end of the day whether its a 12C or 458 in the garage you gotta have a big smile and that's all that counts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

What´s the problem? Excellent news for those who want to buy the car just for driving it!

And for the poor bastard who bought the car brand new... meh, first world problems.

 

Fair enough call on that. The gallardo though is being replaced next year and that is common knowledge, hence such a massive hit in 6 months or a year.

Not quite sure that I 100% agree about the amount of depreciation in terms of percentage from retail price compared to the 12C in the UK, in terms of percentage the 12C seems to be loosing 5-6% more than the 458 over the 3 years. 10% more in 2 years and 15% more in 1 year, of course they will most likely level out, or maybe that 5-6% difference will always be there, not sure. I would suspect the 12C takes a hit when the R8 competitor comes out seeing that everything is the same in it barring looks and slightly detuned engine.

Anyway, I bought 458 new...but plan on keeping it potentially for life. If depreciation is a real worry, I personally do not feel you should be at that point buying the car, or maybe buy second hand (but then I worry about how the person before has maintained or not maintained these cars before me - hence I buy new). Can not stop driving it. Love it. Yes lost £30k on it already or more I am sure.

Sunny

 

What Ferraris do you own? (model, year, colors)

 

+1

 

I have to agree here. The 12c is a bargain now for those willing to make the leap.

Three things that seem to be going for it.

1) The owners of the 12c put on a lot more miles and F drivers. That means, it won't kill your to go on a long trip with it. Take a cross country trip in your 458 and look at 10-20 grand in resale coming right off the top just from putting 10K miles on it in a year. The horror -- 10 k miles!

2) With massive depreciation of 2012 Mac cars, most of the depreciation has already happened. If you buy a good low mileage used, how much farther can they fall? Not much more IMO, especially if they ship fewer 13's to dealers that are not pre-sold.

3) Performance. Nuf said about that.

 

Fair points, although I would be interested to see the effect that the R8 competitor Mclaren is producing will have on the 12C prices-just out of pure curiosity, nothing else.

Sunny

Ps. It seems to be more of a North America thing (on the whole that I have seen/observed), that owners do not drive the F cars and keep them in the garage. Europe you seem to see a lot more heavily used 458s on the used market. Woppum is using his. I am using mine, plenty of others out there

 

LOL!! I love it. I would like you Fiat guys to compare the F458 Italia to the 12C WITHOUT mentioning 3 things. I dare you to just try it. Those 3 things are:

1. Resale.
2. Exhaust note.
3. Emotion.

Again - I realize that is part of the supercar experience BUT I dare you to compare these two cars on something other than those 3 topics. Talk about technology, Interior design, exterior styling, steering feel, brake feel, Gearbox, lap times, heck even interior room. I notice all 12C Vs. F458 threads on Fchat boil down to those 3 issues or that you really want a Ferrari and a Cavallino badging on the back(and the front fenders and the door and passenger side, and the front grille and the..... Well you get my point)

Ritesh - 12C owner.

 

+100%%%%%%%%

 

I have put on 10k miles in 5 months. Guess my estate will have to worry about resale. I am not one bit worried about it. Driving the car is too much fun!

 

Some OTHER points:

4. I notice you are from TX. There is a dealer in Dallas. No dealer in CO and Dallas is 17 hour drive away. A little far to go for a test drive. only 9 dealers in the US so far according to their web site.

5. Was not impressed with the interiors of the 3 12Cs I saw. not warm and inviting.

6. No LED steering wheel. So much for the high tech hoopla.

7. the very wide door sills looked problematic for my agility level, especially for my bad back.

PhilNotHill - a very happy 458 Spider owner.

 

I am glad you love you 12C
You want other points?
Apart from the carbon chassis what is better technologically on the 12C? Please don't mention that stupid air brake as it is useless! They are at least on par in terms of electronics tech. It took McLaren almost 2 years to have a fully functioning IRIS system....
Exterior styling is obviously a very personal opinion but I far prefer the design, shape and overall stance of the 458.
Same with the interior design. I find the design of the 12C uninspiring, quite boring and pretty germanic, although I give you that fit and finish is better in the 12C.
Steering feel I can't comment as I have only driven both cars for a few hundred miles each on track.
Brake feel is a well known issue of the McLaren that almost every review has pointed out and I agree with it.
Gearbox is much faster, harder and more exciting on the 458. The 12C feels much smoother like a limo should be IMO
You mention interior space??? I really don't know how you could even compare them. The 12C is much tighter (on purpose) inside!
Last but not least we all know and have to agree that the 12C is faster on track.

Good enough?

Both great cars, I really don't understand why there is so much "hatred" between people when they talk about these 2 cars. Can't they just be 2 great cars and improve eachother?

 

Let's see if I can help you feel even better about owning a 12C and lurking around the Ferrari forums.

Here you go:

1) Body Design. 12C is flat ugly IMO. The 458 is already being written up as one of the best Ferrari / Pininfarina designs ever. The 12C is a high performance car , but is a dog style wise. I don't think the designers can figure out if they want to copy Ferrari or Lambo so they did a fusion which does not work IMO. Put the two cars next to each other and ask a dozen people which one looks better, has more style, etc. 458 wins ever time. Done this at several car shows.

2) Street Sports Car Pedigree - McLaren is the the realm of Bugatti and Lotus for sports cars. They made a few great ones, but they are only known to a small segment of the sport cars buyers. I have never heard a car enthusiast say "what's a Ferrari?" . I see 12C's roll into our local car events and hear at least half the observers things like "what's that?", "McLaren, is that like Fisker?", and similar. McLaren has a long way to go to establish itself as a SUSTAINED world class sports car builder.

3) Mechanical Engineering Sophistication. Before you blast, I have driven both and am a mechanical engineer.... The 458 engine is simply a more advanced and refined design representing multiple generations of flat-plane crankshaft V-8 development. The intake system, rotating and reciprocating systems, material engineering, etc., all result in it being the highest output normally aspirated engine on the planet at 125 hp/liter. The 911 GT3 RS is right there as well. The 12C as a turbocharged engine has 162 hp/liter only a bit ahead of a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Audi TT RS, or Nissan GT-R. The 12 C is nowhere near the Porsche's super car equivalent of the 911 GT2RS at 173 hp/liter which will no doubt go up as the 991 based car is released.

 

Excellent Points Phil, Edmondo and Rick. See we can suprisingly have an intelligent discussion about the Positives and Negatives of both car without resorting to name calling. We can agree to disagree but yet as true automotive enthusiasts appreciate the each car(well may not Rick - LOL).

Anybody who can afford cars at this price range could buy a F458 or a 12C. We just chose to pick one over the other(Other than Mark who owns BOTH)!

Btw Rick: IMHO other than the NA V8 - the Italia isn't more technologically advanced than the 12C. The CF tub and the Hydraulic suspension are in my opinion superior. They give you the flexibility of having a track car rigidity in the chassis yet supple ride when you don't want it. Thats what helps make it a car you can put more miles on.

Good day Gentlemen.

Ritesh.

 

When we were kids we had pictures of Ferraris and Porsche's up on the wall and maybe some of us Lambos. Cars at this level are purchased on emotion. My dream car was a 911. A 911 turbo was always on the wall. I never dreamed I would have a Ferrari. Anyone have a picture of a McClaren on their wall as a kid?

 

Bravo!! Bravo! Glad you are driving it instead of keeping it in the garage waiting to flip to the Dealer so that he can charge over sticker for it and get you on the list for the next one ;-)

 

I Did!! I had a MP4 - 4 that Senna drove on the wall and a McLaren F1(the street car) poster on my wall when I was in College/Medical School.

 

Loving the depreciation hits...as the saying goes, "A fool and his money are soon parted".
Used market in exotics is fantastic!

 

Thanks Ritesh. It's refreshing to have a friendly and honest discussion about these 2 brands....let's see how long it lasts

As for depreciation, I think it depends hugely on country and even on specific location in some cases. Just to give you an example, the UK is extremely sensible to new models coming out and to winter / summer. As the Cali replacement should be presented in March, values have started to go down a lot here. Just "lost" almost £80k in 2.5 years of ownership of my Cali (ouch) but bought a beautiful September 2012 458 spider at a discount of £70k on list...
Depreciation can be interesting some times