Lotus

I visited sports and specialty cars in Princeton NJ The only Lotus only dealership in the USA. I ask that question. They said that the Evora is not in jeopardy and they await the release of the new redesigned Elise/exige . So I'm pretty sure its rumor Mongering. Jon in Delaware

 

There is talk of an updated Evora coming soon. Hopefully it will just be a brief hiatus for road-going Lotus cars in the US.

Still, a bit scary though, especially coming right after the layoffs of a quarter of their workforce.

 

Sounds like thye are trying to right the ship.
The elige went bye bye after the headlight exemption expired. Now the Evora witht he airbag exemption.

Putting aside how even the socialist euros allow exemtions for small cale manufacturers and we dont, the solution for lotus cannot be just churnign our ever diminishing quantities of the same car.

The evora has great bones, it needs a restyling, there were several limited prod versions that looked far better. Also being sort of close to porche cant cut it. The evoira needs a 450hp version of its motor, somethign that allows the evora to occupy that hallowed spot now vacated by the 997 Gt3. Then Lotus can sell a 120K evora.

The elise, they are always going to sell a few, but the newer elises have prius mtors, so are going to lack anyway. It too needs a serious updating.

But both the evora and elise are good bones, the chasiis suspension and all the other htrd bits are there, what is needed is not a new model but devlopment.

If Lotus wants to sell its cars as track cars int he USA then ship over the cup versions, not the street versions but only for track.

Lotus is s abrilliant company with close to zero vision when it comes to how to market their product. they have the pieces just nott he execution.

Hopefully Toyota buys htem as a Halo brand. It woudl be hard to see the last authentic car company dissapear.

 

Personally, I really thought Lotus lost their way with the Evora. The Lotus ethos was light weight, and the Evora was over 1000 pounds or 50% heavier than the Elise. I don't think the Evora was any lighter, and certainly not significantly so, than my Z06. Ho-hum.

And as for Toyota engines, Lotus always had a Toyota engine, originally from the Celica and in the V6 iteration, from the Camry. I never thought that was much of an impediment, that it represented a willingness to have a reliable power train.

I think modern vehicle regulations may make the sub- 2000 pound car a permanent thing of the past. For those who value light weight, the Elise should increase in value, at least modestly. It has always been a niche vehicle, But the end of the supply should cause price to ratchet upward. I still love my 2005 Elise, even though it is approaching its 10th birthday.

 

I think the mission of the Evora was a modern interpretation of the Eclat or Excel, not a replacement for the Elise/Exige.

IMO what really put Lotus into this position is the shenanigans pulled by Bahar & Co, spreading the company too thin on too many projects, none of which delivered.

PS I miss my Elise

 

I did not mean to suggest the Evora replaced the Elige. But I do think it is portly

 

good article...

Lotus boss reveals future strategy - Telegraph

 

Agreed. And I'd love to have an Elise.

 

Great article, as a lotus fan seems like thye are on the good track, and the only track to save thier car production and bring out great products.

Yeah the Alfa is 3 only kilos lighter and saddled with strut suspension.

I can also tell you from first hand experience that dealing with Lotus is a pleasure in a way that new ferrari owners cant even begin to fantsise about.

To me its the last authentic car company left, and if they improve the cars it can only get better. as I said in a previous post the current range has great bones.

 

Please expound on how dealing w/ Lotus is a pleasure as juxtaposed w/ dealing w/ Ferrari. While I own one of each, they are both much older cars, and my experience isn't really relevant anymore.

 

I love my Evora S GP Edition and its handling and ride quality is second to none.

I would only recommend throwing the rear seat out (no one can use it anyhow), ripping out the carpet, and tossing the leather padding found in the engine bay boot lid....lower weight and more raw look expected in a Lotus.

My third Lotus, and by a mile the best one ever built to date.

beev
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I poltiely e-mailed lotus in hethel with an issue, by the next morning 2 people in Lotus USA Hq wer contacting me. They took maybe 20 mins to tal with me on the phone. theyw ere not some pr hack but people who actualy knew and drove the cars. They liased with the dealer of my choice to make sure evryhting went smoothly and quickly. In fact thye ordered the parts and had them ready before I even spoe with the dealer.

In my case it was a blown cat, bits of which went into the muffler and chewed it up too.
To cut a long story short they asked if I track the car and I said I definitly did. I also said I did not want to go through the schlep of taking the car to a dealer as they are 50 miles away.

The Lotus solution was to send the parts through the dealer to me. Based on what I told them was wrong, ie no dealer coroborating, and I then sent the defective parts back to them. I was also in a hurry as a long weekend was comming up so they expedited the bits throught the dealer to me in 2 days, they also included 2 02 sesors just to make sure it all worked.

All this for a 2 yo old elise. I call that extreme customer service, and I did not need to get argy bargy or argue with them, they just did it.

Now normaly on another car if the same thing happened, good luck talkign to the factory, good luck talking to Hq, and you know the car has to go tot he dealer for diagnosis, and then there is a wait for parts. Yes emissions get fixed under warranty with all cars, but it was the extreme acomodation and speed of the process which so impressed me.

From what I can see Lotus is run by car people, they speak the language and they want you to have an enjoyable experience with their product. Its not a brand company its a sportscar company.

So now I read that the Evora will be restyled made lighter and more powerful, made good for the track. That tells me that an evora will become close to what the 997.2 Gt3 was. XComnsider that an evora is a 3000lbs car wet with 350 hp. So maybe they will come to 2800lbs and close of 450hp. Wea lready know the motor does this.

Cut a long story short, between my experience with them, and the expected upgardes to the product, which is what I had hoped for, my money will go to Lotus over ferrari or porche. Maybe a Ferrari or porche will be slightly faster or with a better built interior. But Lotus really does know what thye are doing, and they care not because they are managing a brand but because they make cars for people who like to use their cars.

To me its the last authetic car. Maybe there are some rattles and squeeks, but you can track it for years and the factory will aplaud. The steering of any lotus is uncompromised. they are going after cognocenti not fashionistas. they dont have the brand cachet and that is a good thing, those who know, know.

I cant recomend them highly enough. Maybe they are not the best buisness model, but if you are into cars, they are the best even if not the fastest on paper.

Years ago i visited the factory, it was probably what it was like vsiting maranello in the 60s, who wouldnt want that.

Now ferrari, they act like they are doing you a favor just selling you a car. You are socialy stigmatised by being lumped in witht he current crop of fashionistas who buy the brand. Track a ferrari and you will undertand the term $ervice.

There seem to be two types of ferrari people, rich smug, and the those with some older cars living the dream. Very very seldom do you see a ferrari at a tarck and then its usualy the smug type.

Now go to a DE event, the most numerous cars are probably BME and then eliges folowed by vettes, even thought here are only 2k elige in the uSA. The Lotus crew, its like a tribe with everyone hanging out and pitching in, kinda like you hear F1 used to be in the 60s'.

 

Thanks for the response. Interesting story.
On a slight aside, I know a man with a 3 year old Bentley & a 1 year old RR, & he said the Bentley dealer experience is far superior. In fact, he said the Rolls dealer acts like its doing you a favor by permitting you to spend $300,000 on the car! Sound familiar?

 

Interesting maybe some wealthy people are so used to getting their way, that they like it when they are treated like crap.

 

I tend to think Ferrari wants and needs to cater to those who genuinely don't care about the cost. The kind of person who, say, operates a jet at $4000 or more per hour and does not flinch at a quick trip across the country with close friends and family for $20k. If you can spend money like that, then a $50k premium on a Ferrari is not a big deal at all, and depreciation loss is likewise not a big deal. This person can also return to the well every year for another car, a 12 cylinder car, etc.

There are lots of folks like this. Every time I fly out of KADS I am shocked at the number of jets, there is even a 737 BBJ on the field. Just a different demographic and I bet they also get a bit different treatment at the dealer.

That said, you never know when the customer you treated shabbily will come into his or her own and they may well remember the treatment. I bet Jay Leno is in that camp, as he used to basically live in his car when starting stand up.

 

All fine and good. But if ferrari wants to sell more than 7k cars per year it needs a different plan. Plus 65 yo are not a great demographic if the younger mere millionaires are entering by buying Mclaren Audi etc. Nothing is forever.

Yeah Leno is a good example, and there are lots more where he came from. In fact how many billionaires do you think bougth P1's because of ferraris attitude. Lots of people care, even if they can afford not to care.

I always thought its a good idea to treat people and customers well. You dont have to fawn on them, but it cant make good buisness sense to treat people badly, or cater to only one limited customer base within a larger niche.

Maybe a good example of what ferrari is doing is to compare to a popular club ore resteraunt. "Everybody" wants to get in for a while, people are made to stand in line and treated like crap, somehow that adds to the mystique, then the bubble bursts and the crowd moves on. I think ferrari is seeing the first signs of that now. Lambo, Mclaren to a lesser degree audi and porche are picking up those people dissafected by ferrari, they will keep them in their fold.

Bact to Lotus. i dont think lotus will sell on cachet, its the anti ferrari ferrari if you will. Of course Lotus has a glorious racing history and can play up its cachet a bit if they want. As the porduct improves in performance and looks, they will gain more sales. I dont see Lotus doing 10K units per year, but if the platforms are good and they keep devloping them, then 3-5k units is possible and they may well be profitable at that.

lotus is already at lighteweight, the mantra for the next decade. Using off the shelf motors is a great idea, since so many off the shelf motors are so great now anyway. Off the shelf motors saves the biggest $$$ in terms of development and with toyota you know you have built in reliability. Many a sportscar company went bankrupt trying to do their own motor. Heck even maserati uses off the shelf drived motors now.

We know a lotuis steers better than anything and a plastic body is somewhat easily changed to a better style.

As we can see from the past Gt3's and ZO6 vettes there is a reasobaly healthy market for cars that can be driven to and on the track and then home, cars light enough not to burn themselvs up in day of tracking. There are lots of people who like nice fast cars, and a good few who also like to drive fast. These people may not want or need to go all out and get into racing or even serious tracking, but they do like to wring their cars out on a track a few times a year, I think the trechnical term is sublimating.. Fact is you cant really wring out a car these days on the street. That is because there is serious enforecement of traffic laws, lots more traffic, and peopel think roads are for bycicles, walking texting etc, driving being way down on the list so as to make speed a pretty risky proposition given the performance of moderns. We all do it here and there, but you are just one ticket away from serious aggravation. This has led to an expolsion of DE events.


So trackdays and track country clubs proliferate. Cars that can do the street, are fun to drive at normal speeds or somewhat above normal speeds and can run on track hard is a healthy niche market, seems Lotus is going after this by developing and honing some excellent existing platforms using off the shelf motors..

If they reduce weight, increase power and handling of the evora platform while giving it better styling they should do well. I know I am probably bullseye traget customer for them.
I love driving my current elise. Am unmoved by ferraris latest crop, lament the Gt3 becomeing a heavy techno car(even if its faster) and would love somethign mid engined in the performance mold of the late 997.2 Gt3

 

Hang on to your Elise, I don't see any truly light mid engine cars coming back. Even the 4C is 25% heavier than the Elise.

 

Another great thing about Lotus is you can phone them and ask technical questions on ANY of their cars including 30-year old Esprits and often speak to the person who designed the part.

Try that with Ferrari, no chance.

 

I dont own that many cars, but of the ones that I do the elise while not the most valuable is $$ is by far my favorite, pretty much becuase of how it drives, plus yes I like the diminutive size, how it looks.

Drive around in an elise and people smile. Drive one on track and evrybody wants to know how it goes.

They really are that good, if you only ever had an elise, you woudl have missed nothing.

As to another lighter Me car. My suggestion to Lotus is to supply elise to the USA on the componant car route, ie ship them as rollers with the owner/dealer doing the motor install. Then they can be lighter still with better engine options. The elan used to come in this way at first.

In europe and the rest of the world lighter faster elise are on the way.

 

Only 25% ??

wow, and 25% lighter than the US Elise or the European one ??

 

My Elise weighs about 1935 with fuel, but no driver. I have read the 4C is about 500 lb heavier. Both in Federal trim. Yes, the Federal, Series II Elise gained significant weight over the S1 Elise, which I think I have read was hundreds of pounds lighter still, but not legally drivable in the US.

 

My Elise no driver, 1975 lbs ful gas on the scales, with hardtop in place, harness bar and lightweight battery, wheel studs(adds weight apaprently), adjustable ohlins and stiffer swaybar, otherwise totaly stock.

Lots of places to loose weight on an elise if you are motivated. CF hardtop, front and rear clam. Lightweight exhaust probably 50 lbs etc. Not too hard to loose 150-200lbs on a federal elise, which would take you down around 1750lbs maybe below 1700 if you loose the ac and stereo for a pure track car.

On my car after 20 track days the pads were still close to only 50-60% worn (pagid rs14)
Tires last about 6hrs hard charging on track 3-5 days deoending on etc.. That is for soft compound yokos. People running hoosier report longer life maybe 2x, probably heat cycle out first.

Interestingly the left rear used to be the first to cord. After corner balancing a bit of lowering and a stiffer front sway bar the left front is now the one to give up the ghost first. Time maybe for some more negative camber in the front and or some stiffening of the shocks?

My laptimes are 1.03 at LRP and 2.18 at the Glenn all on a na 195hp motor. If you supercharge stiffen further and really know what you are doing breaking 55 secs at LRP can be done, I have seen it..

People running vette zO6s report maybe 1/2 day of pad life, and I know the porche people dont have tires last more than 1 day say 2-3 hrs of hard running on hoosiers.

Light weight low power lotus makes for fun accomplished and very economical track car. Then just put street wheels/tires on it, make the shocks 1 click softer and you are good to go for the street. Not many cars can hold up on track out the box for more than a few laps. loti need pretty minimal changes to be able to run hard on track for years.

Interstingly an elise is lighter than an exige.

Still I think we will see a 2700lbs evora with 450hp in a year or so. Plenty of power and as light as a hipo street car gets. If its setup for a tire wheel change and a few clicks of the shocks for track work, that will be a pretty awesome package.

As to the 4c, yes in reality its 500lbs heavier in us spec. The so called eurospec cars advertised a dry weight ie helium in the tires radiator and gas tank. Then why you build a cf tub car and saddle it with struts is an interesting cost cutting question. The Alfa 4c is interesting but it still needs lots of development before it can become a track/street car. To me its more of an opportunity missed, but we are in version 1.0 so maybe with time it will improve, or become a TTv6 maserati or Dino. ..