To turbo or not to turbo... that is the question | FerrariChat

To turbo or not to turbo... that is the question

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by Zarathustra, Jan 29, 2015.

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  1. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
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    May 7, 2006
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    Gary Robinson
    I see some of you are more interested in talking about carbon fiber cup holders, but for those of you contemplating the pros & cons of turbocharging the California, here is an article you may find engaging:

    Why Ferrari engineers don't like turbos
     
  2. Udaverea

    Udaverea Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2014
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    Dave
    Nothing groundbreaking, just crying over spilt milk. The Cali T is a better car, emissions had to decrease, decisions were made, I'm not sure why getting the engineers to admit they would have preferred not using turbos is relevant to those of us with the cars. IMHO.
     
  3. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Mar 22, 2013
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    Hahahaha!

    No doubt, I was hopeful the Cali-T would be more like a Cali-4.5 and inherit the engine from the Italia. But this is just silliness. The T is a better vehicle all around, and although it does not have the same drama as the 30, for me the benefits outweigh the drama by one order of magnitude.

    Most people whining about the T never considered the Cali to be a true Ferrari and griped about that. If someone truly wants to be old school, one should have to row gears and tune webers. Fuel injection is for sissies.

    As for me, I'm Contemplating whether I can add the carbon fiber cup holder after the fact! :D
     
  4. keithos27

    keithos27 Formula 3

    Oct 26, 2012
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    Keith
    Old news, discussed to death already...
     
  5. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
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    Your're right, the article is 21 days old.
    So please return to California cup holders....
     
  6. keithos27

    keithos27 Formula 3

    Oct 26, 2012
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    Gary, I don't really see the correlation? Many topics are discussed on these forums. Why are you hating on CF cupholders? :p
     
  7. keithos27

    keithos27 Formula 3

    Oct 26, 2012
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    Keith
    And I was referring to the turbo debate as being a dead horse, not your specific article (but in today's day and age is old news at 21 days, haha).
     
  8. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 3, 2006
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    FelipeNotMassa
    At my altitude (8k ft) the turbo would have a marked performance advantage.

    The na will sound better.

    Nice we have a choice.
     
  9. Udaverea

    Udaverea Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2014
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    Dave
    I thought a dead horse was when you FCar won't start... ;)
     
  10. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
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    Hating? No, I find them funny, apropos in Californias.
    Now you try to order a cupholder in an F12 and Ferrari fines you $3500.

    Ferrari F12 Comes with $3,533 Carbon Fiber Cupholder
     
  11. keithos27

    keithos27 Formula 3

    Oct 26, 2012
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    Keith
  12. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    hahaha!
    Cali is no real Ferrari...
    Hahaha!
     
  13. Tireman

    Tireman Karting

    Nov 13, 2011
    199
    Canada
    The R&T article is spot on. The new CaliT is a brilliant car that is better in almost every category than its predecessor, but the turbo engine does have all of the indicated limitations. Whether the new CaliT "turns your crank" is a matter of personal preference and clearly many have voted YES with their chequebooks😎. But it may not work for everyone looking for the exhilarating thrill that comes from this wonderful brand.
    The good news is that their are still many other Fcars available for those who prefer a different experience.
    What will be very interesting is how the 458 replacement translates the Ferrari experience in what is supposed to be a more "purposeful" model.
     
  14. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Good points. I guess from my perspective the Cali-T fits exactly what I was looking for (as earlier described). If I want a more raw visceral experience I take the GT.
     
  15. Udaverea

    Udaverea Formula 3

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    My issue with the article is how unrealistic the author is about wanting the automaker to say they don't like turbos and not use them, but does not offer a viable alternative to meeting the ever tighter real-world regulated constraints.
     
  16. qwertstnbir

    qwertstnbir Formula 3

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  17. Tireman

    Tireman Karting

    Nov 13, 2011
    199
    Canada
    Ahh ... Nothing is perfect ... I think the point of the article is that the expectation that the turbo creates material improvements and efficiencies in fuel consumption and emissions are not based on real world usage conditions. They believe that it has become more political and they are giving up a lot of the subjective superlatives of NA engines under pressure driven by false "facts"

    That said the engineers did a marvellous job with the new CaliT in virtually even other aspect!! 👍
     
  18. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Yes. Many of the changes being advocated have little to no impact in the real world... Politics and hysteria rule the day!
     
  19. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Actually no, it does not appear that way at least according to Merc's own claims.

    The Merc-AMG GT S claims:
    • max power claimed 374 Kw vs. 412 Kw of of the CaliT.
    • max torque claimed 650 Nm vs. 755 Nm for the CaliT.
    • acceleration of 3.7 sec 0-60mph vs. 3.6 sec for 0-62 mph of the CaliT
    • top speed of 193 mph vs. 196 mph for the CaliT​
    All this from a 4.0L TTV8 engine vs. the 3.86L TTV8 of the CaliT.

    OK yes, it was neat of Merc to shorten the air intake path but I drove the CaliT in spirited fashion on public roads and I could not detect any turbo lag. Maybe it's more noticeable in a drag race but who drives like that on a daily basis and then the raw performance data shows the CaliT to be superior in spite of the Merc being a newer car with hindsight of the CaliT's performance to aim for.

    Plus the CaliT doubles as a really good-looking convertible, probably has a weight disadvantage as a result but still achieves the same weight distribution 47/53 and is significantly faster than the Merc.

    But I suppose if people prefer cars with a gangster look to them, Merc would be their baby. Yuck.
     
  20. qwertstnbir

    qwertstnbir Formula 3

    Jul 14, 2013
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    CHRIS HARRIS say that AMG car have best turbo engine he ever drive, earlier he drive Cali T, so according to him AMG is better
    I will be waiting for your judgment after your ride in AMG GT S
     
  21. Udaverea

    Udaverea Formula 3

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    I really like reviews by Chris Harris, but it often seems the car he is in at the time is the best ever...
     
  22. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    Chris Harris will say whatever he thinks people would like him to say. He's an entertainer and is expected to create hype and keep his fans happy. It's his job. His views are subjective while the performance figures from Merc and Ferrari are simply what they are.

    Chris Harris is fun to watch but you shouldn't take his hyperboles as gospel. Most of the time he's just trying to jazz up his reviews. OTOH, if you feel Chris's opinions are good enough for you then that's good enough for you. As for myself, I think the current crop of Mercs are awful, devoid of charm, so I wouldn't waste my time on one. If I needed to buy a faster car I would test drive an F12 instead.
     
  23. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    +10

    John
     
  24. qwertstnbir

    qwertstnbir Formula 3

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    I think that judgment based only on numbers is not best idea. Porsche and Mclaren can generate over 600hp from engine less than 4 liter. After the last F1 season do you really think Mercedes could not build more powerful engine? Do you remember how not long time ago Porsche 918 was loser on paper?
     
  25. Royalpar1

    Royalpar1 Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2013
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    I agree with you if all you want is paper numbers, go buy a GTR, a Skyline or a Corvette. If you want a Cavalino you must buy a Ferrari :) I didnt buy a Ferrari for the Spec, i bought it because its the best !
     

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