long time listener, first time caller... | FerrariChat

long time listener, first time caller...

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by Jimmy3993, Dec 7, 2016.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    So much great information here. Thanks to all in advance.
    I can feel myself getting dangerously close to my first Ferrari. It will get driven about 500mi per month and does not need to be my primary car (I drive a ton.)
    I am coming out of an audi R8 and would like to spend some time with more of a GT style car. And I've never owned a convertable so the Cali is on my list ( along with the 599. Ill ask those questions on the other board).
    I had the chance to drive a 2014 cali 30 and it was a whole lot of fun. And the interior put every other car I have ever been in to shame. Amazing leather work.
    I will most likely own the car for a year +- and put 6k miles on it before reselling. I'd like to think that I will find my automotive soulmate but that just isn't realistic for me. So many cars to experience.
    What I wonder about and would like feedback on is the cali 30 vs the 2011 or 2012 model in terms of driving experience. Has anyone driven both? If so could you tell the difference?
    Also I have read often that I need to look for a car that either has or can have added a 1 yr warranty. A "Power Warranty" I think it is called. Is this something that can be added by a dealer to the car regardless of where I purchase? By that I mean do I need to by the car from an F dealer to have a chance at getting the warranty? It seems like I could get a better front end deal from a private party or the highland retailer than I could from an F Dealer and given that I tend to swap cars often striking a good deal is important especially when it comes down to spousal sanctioning of such transactions.
    Thanks in advance for your help!
     
  2. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    I have a 2010 Cali and I've driven the Cali 30 as well and to be honest, despite of the fact that the Cali 30 has more 30hp, I didn't notice the difference. My Cali has magneride suspension and when I compare the drive with other Calis without it I could notice the difference so I advise you to look for a Cali with this option.
    The extended power warranty is a must and if there is a single advice I can give you is don't buy a car which doesn't have one. I had this year a personal experience with my Cali after it was diagnosed a problem in the speed sensor of the gear-box and the repair was done free of charge under the extended warranty. This repair involved removing the transmission, opening it and putting it back and the estimated cost presented by the dealer was around 9.000 USD.
    I've followed for quite a while the Cali prices in europe and always suspected of cars which apparently are a bargain. Normally either they have a high mileage which is not good in terms of value, they don't have a extended warranty or there is some type of problem.
    If I was you and to resume I would look for a Cali combo you like aesthetically because that's very important, with low to medium mileage maximum around 20.000, magneride suspension and a valid extended warranty.

    Good luck
     
  3. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    Can I buy the warranty myself if the car dose t come with it?
    I'll call my local dealer and ask the service department. I bet it is like the extended warranty that Audi offers for the r8 in that you can add it to the car after an inspection.
     
  4. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    The extended power warranty is issued normally for periods of one year by Ferrari factory and the car has to pass an inspection in order to get one. If the car doesn't pass that inspection which covers almost every department the extended warranty is not issued.
     
  5. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    Got it. So if I find a car I like I can take it to a dealer for pre purchase inspection and ask if it can be warranties at that time?
     
  6. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #6 4th_gear, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You can only extend the factory warranty if the car has at least 30 days before the original factory warranty expires. Otherwise, the New Power Warranty can be purchased instead, at anytime during the first 12 years of the car's life... under certain conditions. Here's an excerpt from the PDF brochure I attached, which explains the warranties in full:
    "...The 4th year extended warranty or 4th + 5th extended warranty may be purchased at the time of purchasing the vehicle and/or up to 30 days before the expiry date of the manufacturer’s warranty...​
    This means cars with expired original factory warranties can only subscribe to the New Power Warranty program, not the 1-2 year extended factory warranty program.

    Re the differences between the original Cali and Cali30, I have test driven two different 2012 Calis on 3 separate occasions as well as owned a Cali30 for 4 years. The Cali30 has significantly shorter ratios across its entire range of gears (see attached comparison) so it accelerates quicker, the extra 30PS in horsepower allows it to retain the same top speed in spite of the shorter 7th gear.

    The shorter gearing enhances the extra 15 Nm (max) of torque which makes the 30 feel punchier, more raw, engine braking is much more noticeable when driven aggressively and is also slightly louder. Only the Cali30 can use the HS Pack option - get a car with HS if you like going fast on the back roads but it doesn't make any difference cruising on the freeway. The older Cali model feels more relaxed but it will still makes you giggle when you drive it in a spirited manner. Get a car with Magneride.

    Adding a high quality aftermarket muffler or exhaust system not just increases the noise but completely changes the character of the car. ;)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. JPA

    JPA Karting

    Feb 3, 2016
    97
    Southern California
    I tend to agree with Mario, I've driven both the Cali and the Cali30 and have found no difference in performance. Now is the time of the year where you have more purchasing power and options. Good luck
     
  8. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #8 4th_gear, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
    Actually, Mario's Cali is not a standard Cali.

    Mario's car is equipped with a Capristo exhaust which adds significant torque and power. I should know because I added a Capristo muffler designed for the Cali30 this past Summer and my car feels completely different and more potent especially at the low end... and louder as well. With all due respect, maybe Mario should have mentioned that.

    So while I understand that each driver like you or I, may or may not perceive engine, weight improvements made by the factory or shorter gearing (which is a standard performance tweak), perhaps you should also take some test drives in Calis with Capristo mufflers and see if they also make no difference to your perception of the car's performance.
     
  9. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Michael thank you for the explanation about the gear ratios diferences between the early Cali and the Cali 30 which I was unaware of. You've mentioned also the fact that my Cali has the Capristo exhaust installed which is true adds torque and power and may be that's the reason why I didn't perceive much of a diference to the Calis 30 I drove.
    Concerning Jimmy 3993 options I think if he can get a good deal on a reliable Cali30 he likes that will probably be his first option because is newer car. However at least in Europe you find some earlier Calis with very nice combos, low mileage, perfect condition and with an extended warranty which sell in general for a value lower than any equivalent Cali 30. If Jimmy 3993 finds an earlier Cali with a combo and features that he loves and which fulfills his requirements, eventually the tiny performance increment the Cali 30 provides is secondary and might not justify the difference in price.
     
  10. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #10 4th_gear, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
    I think in most part, the additional 30PS(CV) with the Cali30 is employed at the top end whereby the shorter gearing ultimately results in the Cali30 only achieving 1 mph higher (194 mph) vs the older Cali's 193 mph. The factory was probably content with the overall performance of the older Cali and focused mainly on creating a more lively, raw and competent feel to the Cali30. That would explain both the shorter gearing which takes advantage of the increased torque, (a 30kg weight loss), the louder exhaust (also due to the reworked exhaust manifold of the Cali30), as well as the optional HS Pack.

    IMO, there's always a rhyme and reason to the way the factory tweaks its cars. The earlier Cali was clearly deemed too soft by many hardcore Ferraristi so the factory simply re-introduced some rawness and responsiveness at the lower end, without intruding into the 458 territory. While the factory has purposely limited the top end, the change in demeanor of the car in everyday use is very palpable in SPORT mode especially when you drive it with a measure of determination. Response is electric and very precise when you need to move it up a few notches.

    I'm not sure where the OP is located but based on what I have learned from other EU Fchat members, I do understand and agree with your observations of the EU market for these cars. You can get some really nice deals on the older cars. It really depends on what the individual buyer is looking for in the car, aside from price. People who know Ferrari will know they always come up with desirable upgrades when they do a mid-life refresh to a model before they redesign it. The F430 had its Scud/16M, 599 GTB had its 599 HGTE, 458 had its Speciale. While the Cali is not in those higher categories, the Cali30 refresh is significant.

    As for the Capristo muffler, I really love it. While it did take away a couple of things I liked about the old muffler its overall list of enhancements is well worth the sacrifice. In SPORT mode, aside from other manifestations, my car would at times very noticeably shrug and pop for no particular reason as I drive along minding my own business, as if it had a mind of its own. The unexpected behaviour builds on the pleasing unpredictable nature that I have always found with my car. Unlike every other car I have driven, I never quite know for sure what the Cali will do or feel like on a given drive. I think this dynamic behaviour is a big part of the Ferrari magic that is pretty unique for such a computer-driven car.

    Depending on how my neighbours and my ears handle my currently planned aftermarket upgrades, I might also incrementally add the X-pipe and race cats, one per year at a time.
     
  11. JPA

    JPA Karting

    Feb 3, 2016
    97
    Southern California
    Perhaps you should check your ego out the door, a rear muffler modification will add sound and the power on the ground is negligible. I'll stand by my opinion, so deal with it. A cali or cali30
    with or without capristo mufflers is virtually undetectable in it's performance.
     
  12. good2go

    good2go Formula Junior

    Feb 9, 2016
    939
    Compared to what?
     
  13. JPA

    JPA Karting

    Feb 3, 2016
    97
    Southern California
    Not sure i'm understanding what you're asking
     
  14. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #14 4th_gear, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
    Actually there's nothing for me to deal with, if I hadn't actually upgraded and driven a Capristo-upgraded Cali30, I would have found your arguments about the Capristo muffler upgrade very reasonable. It's what most people would expect, without actually having experienced it. I don't have an ego stake in this. The Cali is not a muscle car and I'm not trying to compete with anyone. I'm just relaying to people what I experienced.

    As usual, you should actually experience a car in person before you can reliably comment on it. It's the increase in torque and responsiveness at the low end that is very palpable. I'm not sure how noticeable any power improvements are but I do plan to dyno the car next season, before I do too much more to it. The Cali30 uses the same muffler as the older Cali.

    Finally, Capristo also sells just a remote exhaust valve controller (as does another supplier whose name I forget now). Having the valves open should theoretically provide most of the performance (and noise) enhancements but again, I haven't actually done that before. All I can say is that the car sounds incredible when I really crank it. The muffler does seem to nuance the sound even when its valves are fully open. Keep in mind, the valves are actually part of the muffler after all and the Capristo unit is a lot lighter than the OE unit. Lighter pipe construction reduces the muffling effect of sound waves being conducted along its path.

    I suspect the OE muffler was designed to sound more restrained, whether with valves closed or opened. The older Cali was marketed to first-time Fcar buyers who might have been turned off if their Calis turns into a noisy beast when they crank it over 3000 RPM. The Cali30 uses the same OE muffler as the older Cali. When I ordered my Capristo muffler, the factory asked me if my car was a Cali30 or the older Cali.
     
  15. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2005
    2,565
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Vic
    I drove a 2012 and a 2013 back to back when I was shopping (similar cars, both with Magneride), I could feel the difference in the 30 but it was not a huge difference -- most noticeable in lower rev ranges to me -- but both cars certainly have plenty of power. I opted for the 30. It was a little more lively.

    To the OP, as long as the car you buy meets age and mileage requirements and passes the inspection at an authorized Ferrari dealer, you can buy the extended New Power warranty for it. However, if the car does not pass the inspection -- which I would imagine would include modifications, accident damage and perhaps a lack of service history -- then you would be on your own. One of the advantages of buying a car with an existing warranty, or buying from a Ferrari dealer as, presumably, they would not sell a car they cannot warrant.

    The best option is to buy a car still under the original factory warranty as that can be extended for 2 more years from the expiration date. I have considered selling my own 2013 Cali 30 to get a 458 (mine has the original bumper to bumper warranty extended through the end of June 2018) but given the time of year here in the Northeast, it's unlikely to go anywhere until the spring.
     
  16. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    #16 MDEL, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Enclosed you find a pfd made by Autocar magazine in 2012 which is a publication I quite trust, with the evaluation of the Cali 30 as well as the HS package.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. good2go

    good2go Formula Junior

    Feb 9, 2016
    939
    oops! I thought you said "unacceptable" performance.
     
  18. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #18 4th_gear, Dec 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I also enjoy reading AUTOCAR reviews. In fact I had read or watched several reviews of the Cali30 before I ordered mine. While all the reviews had favourable impressions of the Cali30, comments on the HS Pack were essential 50/50 - some said it wasn't needed or was flawed in some way, some said it was an improvement.

    I didn't want to buy an otherwise nice car that would be made unpleasant simply because I had picked a bad option so I played it safe and ordered my Cali30 without the HS Pack.

    Then some time after I got my car I started to read reviews from Fchat members who liked their HS Pack very much and were very glad they ordered it. I was skeptical at first, because of the stupid journo reviews. However, as I racked up driving experience with my car I found the suspension was too soft for my liking. Hard corners that I used to nail with my old BMWs were awkward for the Cali30 as it leaned too much, weighing too much on the outside tires. It was very difficult to set up for a fast corner entry, let alone a fast exit. The soft suspension also felt crashy when I had the car in SPORT mode, driving on the less than perfect country roads here.

    When I finally ordered the HS Pack upgrade I really just wanted it for the stiffer, more responsive springs, faster Magneride settings and was admittedly leery about the faster steering rack, because of the stupid journo complaints about it being difficult to get used to.

    I immediately road tested my car when I picked it up from the dealer, flinging it around 90° right-hand turns dreading my worse fears. To my surprise while my first corner was a bit tentative I enjoyed the faster rate of turn. The car felt livelier and just needed a bit more attention from me but it was not uncomfortable. I got comfortable with the new steering within a few minutes.

    I became used to the faster steering very quickly and now it just feels like an improvement over the old steering. I've also found the HS Pack suspension to be actually more comfortable than the standard suspension, probably because the spring rates are higher. The standard suspension's springs are too soft for fast driving and causes the suspension to bottom out pretty easily. The stiffer springs actually absorb bumps much better and makes the suspension more compliant (sticks to the road). Places on one of my driving routes where my car with the standard suspension would launch over frost heaves, catching air and crash down upon landing now no longer has the car catching any air, as the suspension keeps the car down, in contact with the road surface and transitions to the other side of the humps without drama.

    My take on this car journo review thing is that they may be entertaining to read, but if you are actually buying the car (and the journos aren't), you should be wary and only trust your own test drives or credible comments from people you know who have driven their cars for many miles.

    To prove my point, I am attaching the EVO Magazine write-up on the Cali30 HS Pack, which came to a very different conclusion than the AUTOCAR's review... or even my review. So to summarize, I don't trust journo reviews. Outside of stating interesting facts and technical information, the rest of the verbiage is "show business entertainment". ;)

    Finally, you'll find the CaliT has the same transmission gearing ratios as the Cali30, not the older Cali. In addition, the standard Cali/Cali30 steering rack is 2.5 turns lock-lock, the Cali30 HS Pack is 2.3 turns and the CaliT is 2.2 turns. The CaliT can now also be ordered with an HS Pack.

    I would say Ferrari does not repeat mistakes, especially with a bread-and-butter high volume model.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. Jimmy3993

    Jimmy3993 Karting

    Oct 31, 2016
    147
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Jim Augustine
    I appreciate all the input. I'm in San Antonio texas and live near my local dealer but these days you can buy a car from anywhere after a good prepurchase inspection and have it delivered to your door I no time so I suspect that when I am ready to buy. Will search nationally.
    Capristo makes great exhaust products. I drive an r8 currently and capristo makes a very nice sounding exhaust for this car as well. I do think that for me anyway that the car sounds very much impacts my experience. This is in part what is moving me from the r8 to a Ferrari. Nothing sounds like a Ferrari. There is no exhaust on the planet that will make my car sound like a 430. Or a cali. The body roll in the suspension concerns me but it sounds like the HS package sorts that out.
    Price wise, it really seems to come down to mileage. I would have expected a bigger price gap between the 12's and 13's but it doesn't seem to be there. There seems to be a big gap between the 13's and the 14's but I would guess that is warranty related. I only worry over price because I can't seem to stay put in a car and getting in at the right price makes getting out much more pleasant.
    I think that I will enjoy the Audi till february or so. In the mean time I will keep my eyes open and take every opportunity that I can find to drive / experience as many California variations as possible.
     
  20. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,557
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
     
  21. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    The Capristo muffler sounds incredible on my Cali30. I had an old-school American muscle car pull up to me one time and we started to entertain each other at the red lights by revving our engines in neutral. My car sounded just as loud, different as expected and at least just as good if not better.

    As for pricing, used car prices usually discount any included options and depend more on colour, mileage, age, condition, local market demand, time of year and MSRP. Ferrari did not increase MSRP on the Cali30 when it upgraded the older Cali. It was a super bonus, a gift that was quietly bestowed to the new owners.

    Good luck! ;)
     

Share This Page