Go Back   FerrariChat.com > Model Specific Discussions > California

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:44 PM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2
Transmission problem ferrari california 2011

Hey guys

Recently the transmission started to not work properly.
After a 30min drive specially when gear changes from 1 to 4 and back 4 to 1 like in trafficy areas a this sign flashes ^operation not admissible^. If i turm the car off like for couple of hours it drives fine for a couple of minutes then again this sign shows up and the gear changes become very rough and car becomes not drivable.
I went to one guy who works in ferrari and checked the car
These errors came up
P1903 app clutch pressure odd too low
P0931 electric parklock hold pin command to high
P193A app output speed consistency too low

Can any body help.
Dont know whats the problem

Car has 50 k miles on 2011.

Majed
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #2  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:07 PM
vjd3's Avatar
Formula Junior
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Full Name: Vic
Posts: 915
My Garage
The earlier DCT transmissions can have problems with the speed sensor inside the gearbox. Not sure if those error codes relate to that or not, others may be more knowledgeable. Hope you can get it sorted.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:31 PM
Formula 3
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southern Europe
Full Name: Mario
Posts: 1,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majedcali View Post
Hey guys

Recently the transmission started to not work properly.
After a 30min drive specially when gear changes from 1 to 4 and back 4 to 1 like in trafficy areas a this sign flashes ^operation not admissible^. If i turm the car off like for couple of hours it drives fine for a couple of minutes then again this sign shows up and the gear changes become very rough and car becomes not drivable.
I went to one guy who works in ferrari and checked the car
These errors came up
P1903 app clutch pressure odd too low
P0931 electric parklock hold pin command to high
P193A app output speed consistency too low

Can any body help.
Dont know whats the problem

Car has 50 k miles on 2011.

Majed
Normally the transmission DCT issues have to do with internal sensor(s) not working properly. The gear-box main shaft speed sensor failure is one of the common faults on the Cali DCT's from the generation up to 2012 and I had that problem on a 2010 Cali I owned and the "Operation not admissible" sign use to shown. Normally the only solution is the removal of the DCT which afterwards will have to be open and the faulty sensor removed and substituted by a new one. Unfortunately the correct diagnose of this type of fault and the necessary repair can only be done at an authorized Ferrari dealer and unless you have an extended warranty the cost
of the repair can be high.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:42 AM
F1 Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 3,789
Not all dealers have mechanics who are qualified to open the box.
Most dealers have a level or stage 1 certification which allows them to swap a defective box with a new one.

Higher stages require advanced training overseen by FNA following Ferrari SpA guidelines.

Sensors and other electrical faults probably comprise the majority of these spontaneous failures, I hope that in the future Getrag will re design these problem components and thereby improve the reliability of the box. The mechanical gearing I believe is very well designed and robust.

And the clutch packs, so long as over heating issues are managed, should last way over 100k miles. Since my Mercedes transmission lasted over 200k miles, I would like to believe so could the Ferrari DCT.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:23 AM
vjd3's Avatar
Formula Junior
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rhode Island
Full Name: Vic
Posts: 915
My Garage
I was speaking to someone knowledgeable about these boxes and was told that the problem in the early ones is often traced to a plastic zip tie keeping wiring out of the way that was not suitable for the heat in the box where it was placed. It would become brittle after being exposed to the heat for a while and would eventually abrade the wiring until it would short and cause the sensor errors. It was fixed in later gearboxes by repositioning and using a different zip tie.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:51 AM
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas Texas
Full Name: Steve F
Posts: 2,915
My Garage
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majedcali View Post
Hey guys

Recently the transmission started to not work properly.
After a 30min drive specially when gear changes from 1 to 4 and back 4 to 1 like in trafficy areas a this sign flashes ^operation not admissible^. If i turm the car off<script id="gpt-impl-0.5723801694721764" src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_133.js"></script> like for couple of hours it drives fine for a couple of minutes then again this sign shows up and the gear changes become very rough and car becomes not drivable.
I went to one guy who works in ferrari and checked the car
These errors came up
P1903 app clutch pressure odd too low
P0931 electric parklock hold pin command to high
P193A app output speed consistency too low

Can any body help.
Dont know whats the problem

Car has 50 k miles on 2011.

Majed

Majed ,

From the limited information your provided, it does appear to be speed sensor related.
Can the Ferrari shop you went to not diagnose it farther? Do you have a New Power Warranty policy on the car now? This would be a covered component failure...

LMK if I may help sir,

Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by vjd3 View Post
I was speaking to someone knowledgeable about these boxes and was told that the problem in the early ones is often traced to a plastic zip tie keeping wiring out of the way that was not suitable for the heat in the box where it was placed. It would become brittle after being exposed to the heat for a while and would eventually abrade the wiring until it would short and cause the sensor errors. It was fixed in later gearboxes by repositioning and using a different zip tie.
Ah, the zip tie failure... like these ?




BTW , " most " Dealerships are now required to have at least 1 technician fully trained in DCT rebuilds... meaning Level IV , level I was 3 years ago < wink >
Of the 8 techs in our shop, I have 6 trained in level IV DCT rebuilds and have invested in the special tool " kits " required to perform the repairs.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Zip Tie 1.jpg (110.3 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg Zip Tie 2.jpg (118.8 KB, 151 views)
__________________
"You have first to experience what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:56 AM
F1 Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 3,789
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAFE4NOW View Post
have at least 1 technician fully trained in DCT rebuilds... meaning Level IV , level I was 3 years ago < wink >
Of the 8 techs in our shop, I have 6 trained in level IV DCT rebuilds and have invested in the special tool " kits " required to perform the repairs.
Thank you for the expert information and the terrific pictures!

I have a question about what the different training levels cover

I thought Level 3 was the highest training which is currently offered. I heard that level 3 covers servicing work on the clutch pack.

The ability to change sensors is that covered with level 2? Internal wiring harness work?

What is level 4?

Last edited by MalibuGuy; 07-17-2017 at 12:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:41 PM
Rookie
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 4
Steve, thanks for the insight on what is needed for a repair shop to open up the DCT. Just curious what a rough idea of the cost is now to open it up and replace the sensor vs the previous fix of replacing the whole DCT box.

Thanks.
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #9  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:02 PM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmci00 View Post
Steve, thanks for the insight on what is needed for a repair shop to open up the DCT. Just curious what a rough idea of the cost is now to open it up and replace the sensor vs the previous fix of replacing the whole DCT box.

Thanks.


My replacement main speed sensor cost $6500 on a 2010 Cali 12 months ago. - been good since - check out my postings on the issue - gl


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:39 PM
ingegnere's Avatar
Formula 3
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,167
Apologies for going OT, but is the zip tie problem also an issue on BMWs with Getrag DCTs?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:02 AM
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas Texas
Full Name: Steve F
Posts: 2,915
My Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuGuy View Post
Thank you for the expert information and the terrific pictures!

I have a question about what the different training levels cover

I thought Level 3 was the highest training which is currently offered. I heard that level 3 covers servicing work on the clutch pack.

The ability to change sensors is that covered with level 2? Internal wiring harness work?

What is level 4?
Simple answer to your question:

Level I : Fluid leak repairs
Level II : SAP / CCP repair ( seen in photos below )
Level III : Speed sensor replacement
Level IV : Differential repairs

Hope this helps...

S
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (100.4 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (89.2 KB, 73 views)
__________________
"You have first to experience what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:03 AM
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas Texas
Full Name: Steve F
Posts: 2,915
My Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmci00 View Post
Steve, thanks for the insight on what is needed for a repair shop to open up the DCT. Just curious what a rough idea of the cost is now to open it up and replace the sensor vs the previous fix of replacing the whole DCT box.

Thanks.
$6,500-$8,500 is what I have seen for straight repair costs for a speed sensor repair.

SSP/CCP will be more.

S
__________________
"You have first to experience what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:05 AM
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas Texas
Full Name: Steve F
Posts: 2,915
My Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ingegnere View Post
Apologies for going OT, but is the zip tie problem also an issue on BMWs with Getrag DCTs?
IMO,

Its not the "zip tie " itself as much as its the wiring harness insulation material wearing through allowing the wiring to touch metal.. because of the positioning of a zip tie or the harness material breaking down.

So, yes, it could cross over to each application ( BMW, MB, Etc )

S
__________________
"You have first to experience what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-18-2017, 10:50 AM
Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Tri state area
Full Name: Chris
Posts: 20
Great info from the folks. I was told a CCP is north of $15K . I had a hiccup with a 2013 cali 30 over the past month and the car drove fine the issue was a gearbox light would pop up and then a Check engine light and it was low clutch pressure error and then solenoid short error. My dealer ran a diagnostic which is also a cleaning (Steve could provide more intel on this process) and then drove it extensively. Thankfully the issue has abated itself. To not risk anything I went and paid for the new power warranty after Ferrari approved me stating the original issue was resolved. I wish you luck in remedying this issue as it definitely takes the fun out of the experience.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-18-2017, 12:33 PM
SAFE4NOW's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas Texas
Full Name: Steve F
Posts: 2,915
My Garage
Chris is correct,

The first level of Diagnosis as I understand it is pulling codes and running electronic systems check. Then depending on what faults are stored, a valve body cleaning may be part of the process. This involves getting fluid temps up, shifting through various gears in pre set patterns, and other processes that will send heated and pressurized fluid through all the channels, tubes, and valves within the DCT gearbox.

I would compare this broadly and laughingly to the well known " Ferrari Tune Up " where one would drive said Ferrari at slow speed, high RPM's , to clean out the carbon...


The purchase of the New Power Warranty is a safe bet IMO too!


S
__________________
"You have first to experience what you want to express" (V. Van Gogh)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:35 PM.


FerrariChat.com has no association with Ferrari S.p.A.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.