Rock's Automotive Restoration: LAWSUIT

Typically in settlements, whether it's a divorce or otherwise, agreements are satisfied before court dates so life can move on for both parties in an amicable fashion for both parties. Which sounds like you both accomplished.

Though you say you had a favorable outcome that was a great result for you ( which is great ) your post on this now indicates quite the opposite unfortately.

 

Red,

Obviously when friendships are ruined and the disagreement takes on a public face no one wins. In this case, considering we started off being told to pound sand and kept at it for over three years against a great lawyer I think we have reason to be pleased, if that word is ever appropriate in cases such as this.

Robert as you know is more direct. I'm more sotto voce. Still the facts are what they are and the community benefits when experiences like this are shared. Regretfully we don't seem to be the only ones having problems.

Kind Regards,
Paul

 

Well said Paul " when friendships are ruined" this is probably the most disheartening part.

As you and I both know , every business ( if in business long enough ) will have disgruntled, angry , disappointed ( insert any other word here ) client, or clients - it's impossible to avoid, whether you are "Apple" , A home builder , or a plumber. I'm very disappointed that it didn't work out better for all parties involved.

I'm sadded mostly that it doesn't sound like you are still happy even though you completed a beautiful looking car. Not pleased for both sides of this story - truly a shame it comes to this.

 

Where is the original thread? Can't find...

 

Too bad you were not vinidicated by court.

 

interesting

 

It should be noted that only "safety" related items require the licence of a certified mechanic in Ontario.

For example, quick lube shops or muffler shops don't necessarily need a certified tech, as long as they aren't doing brakes/suspension work and the like.

Most smaller shops only have 1 licensed tech and a bunch of apprentices doing the work. As long as somebody has their ticket on the wall (in theory, approving all work before it's returned to the customer) and they are insured, everything is legal.

 

Rob, interesting your writing. I am away for the next 3-4 weeks. During this time I am going to have to rethink my position as I am starting to incline towards filing suit against Rocco and rock's auto. I will send you a pm to discuss offline. In interim I have dropped a line to my counsel to interim review your points and my records. I have had a number of individuals email me with their own experiences and I now see a common thread.

 

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Having been in the Automotive repair business in Ontario for the past 38 years and as a member of the Ontario College of Trades I wish to comment solely on the regulations regarding our compulsory trade.

In Ontario all Compulsory Trades are regulated by the Ontario College Of Trades Apprenticeship Act and the Motive Power Sector subsection is 277/11.

Subsection 277/11 outlines what work is included within the Scope of Practice of each trade within the Motive Power Sector. It also states which work may be performed without a Certificate of Qualification. Here is the excerpt from the act:

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), the following work is not included in the scope of practice for the trades listed in that subsection:

1. Removing or replacing wheels and rims on motor vehicles.
2. Removing or replacing any of the following in motor vehicles, motorcycles, motor coaches, trucks or truck-trailers:
i. auto glass,
ii. exhaust systems,
iii. radiators, cooling system hoses and thermostats,
iv. engine drive belts,
v. horns,
vi. light bulbs, sealed beam units and lenses,
vii. fuses, batteries and battery cables,
viii. radios,
ix. shock absorbers or springs that do not require the realignment of the front or rear suspension,
x. oil filters, air filters and fuel filters, and
xi. spark plugs.
3. Changing the engine, transmission, differential or cooling system fluids in motor vehicles, motorcycles, motor coaches, trucks or truck-trailers.
4. Replenishing fluids in the hydraulic systems of motor vehicles, motorcycles, motor coaches, trucks or truck-trailers.
5. Repairing and balancing tires and wheels on motor vehicles, motorcycles, motor coaches, trucks or truck-trailers.
6. Lubricating motor vehicles, motorcycles, motor coaches, trucks or truck-trailers.
7. Reconditioning and rebuilding internal combustion engines and associated components, power trains, brake system components and suspension system components. O. Reg. 277/11, s. 2 (2).

To be clear here is the balance of the regulation as it relates to the trade of Automotive Service Technician:

Automotive service technician

10. The scope of practice for the trade of automotive service technician includes engaging in the servicing, repairing, overhauling, diagnosing or inspecting of motor vehicles by doing any of the following:
1. Disassembling, adjusting, repairing and reassembling engines, transmissions, clutches, rear ends, differentials, brakes, drive shafts, axles and other assemblies.
2. Testing for and correcting faulty alignment of wheels, axles, frames and steering mechanisms.
3. Diagnosing faults in, repairing or replacing suspension systems, including shock absorbers and spring assemblies.
4. Diagnosing faults in, installing, repairing and removing ignition, charging and starting systems, panel instruments, wiring and other electrical and electronic systems and equipment.
5. Diagnosing faults in, repairing and adjusting fuel systems, engine management systems and emission control systems.
6. Diagnosing faults in, installing, inspecting, maintaining and removing air-conditioning and refrigeration and heating systems. O. Reg. 277/11, s. 10.

Not wishing to be critical but simply clear as to the regulation:

" You are are only allowed to commercially work on cars for a very limited period of time (I can't remember the exact time but it is much less than 12 months) and even then you must work under the supervision of a registered mechanic. After that grace period if you intend on continuing to work on cars for money you must enter into the apprenticeship program en route to getting your ticket."

No one may work in any compulsory trade for more than 3 month unless they are a Registered Apprentice.

My apprenticeship totaled 9600 hours (10,000 hrs was the starting point but I received a 400 hour credit for previous experience in Secondary School) which took me almost 5 years to complete. The Automotive Service Technician apprenticeship (AST) was and still is the longest apprenticeship in Ontario.

FYI - There are 158 Apprenticable trades in Ontario, 22 of which are compulsory. Other compulsory automotive related trades are:



Alignment and Brakes Technician▲
Auto Body and Collision Damage Repairer▲
Auto Body Repairer▲
Automotive Electronic Accessory Technician▲
Automotive Service Technician▲
Fuel and Electrical Systems Technician▲
Motorcycle Technician▲
Transmission Technician▲
Truck and Coach Technician▲
Truck-Trailer Service Technician▲

Should you have any questions regarding the rules or regulations as they apply in the Province of Ontario please feel free to ask.

 

I am sure it wouldn't go well for either the owner or the "technican"

The only other comment I can make is many years ago we were involved in a suit in small claims court. The party who had made claim brought in his "expert" witness to testify on his behalf. The witness began to testify and when he gave the name of the shop he worked in I mentioned to my counsel that it was my belief that the shop that he worked in employed no certified technicians. After giving his testimony my lawyer asked the witness to state his qualifications to which he stated "well I dont have an official license, if thats what you mean" to which the judge stated "Do you mean to tell me that you don't hold a mechanic's license"?
to which the fellow stated "No but.." the judge cut him off, told him to leave the stand as he wasn't qualified to testify as an expert. The judge then instructed the court reporter to strike the evidence given from the court record and he the asked the Plaintiff if he had any more unqualified individuals to testify on his behalf.

 

Well, it has been a week, actually I believe a little over a week.

I would have really liked to have heard from the horse's mouth directly, if he is a licensed mechanic or not, and if he is when he obtained his license.

I know Rocco advised me verbally he was a licensed mechanic and I took that at face value. I know now, reading through the various disclosure material, he is not licensed. Explains in hindsight why no certifications on shop wall. It explains now why the heads were substandard, the rings were incorrect, and so on. Would have really liked to have had my faith restored somewhat, that at least in the area of licensing Rocco had not lied to me. To me it is the same thing as a medical surgeon performing surgery and the patient finding out halfway through the procedure that the doctor is not licensed to practice medicine.

 

Shame. I'm hoping to pick up a 355 in the next few years and this shop is less than a 1km walk from my home. That would have been convenient.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I am currently having work done on my Ferrari Mondial t by Rock's Auto. I've been quite pleased to date. The team seems dedicated to their craft. I would recommend them.

 

.....that's because you haven't been dealing with him that long. For your sake I hope you'll be saying the same thing years from now. There is an evident disparity between those who praise him and those of us who criticize him.

 

For posting this thread. This gives me a better reason to go after Brett. I am sure he does not have any legal business papers as he was never a mechanic. His two helpers. Who knows. I will have to spend at least $35,000 to go after this crook. Vince what law firm are you using. I need a contact, please

 

With this thread I now understand better why Rocco told me some years ago I couldn't afford a Testarossa. He should have said ''you can't afford to have it maintained by my shop''

 

B.S.

I have known him for over a decade and have used his services exclusively without issue. He has serviced my 308, BB512, Mondial and recently my Countach. I may send him a second Countach as a restoration project.

There is another side to this story which will never be told as there is no point in commencing a debate with someone on the Internet who is determined to smear a reputation.

A complete waste of time.

 

BS?
You do not know about my misadventure with Rock's. I can paint a very unflattering picture of the fellow but I have bitten my tongue for 4 years in an effort to not publically "smear" him. Although I owe him nothing I would still rather keep the details to myself.

If you are truly interested to know more I will gladly PM you the gory details. Otherwise we will continue to respectfully disagree.

 

These are facts that others need to know. I have posted problems and been told I was wrong. Employees change with quality and time. The owner is responsible. I had the owner obligation for 40 years. I always took care so that the customer never knew. My suppliers were at times awful. Customers need to know

 

Yup, that's what I'd say too. There's another side to this BUT, I'm not going to tell it.

It's somewhere between "neener-neener" and "I know something you don't know."

IF, and that's a big IF, you know something that will help to protect or repair the reputation of Rock's, and simultaneously destroy the OP's point, then you should go for it.

What's the worst thing that could happen? You save your buddy's reputation? OH, GOD, that would be just awful. Suppose no one believes you? Well, then he's no worse off than when you started.

So, c'mon, dish. Tell us the TRUTH, as you know it. ENLIGHTEN us.

D

 

I'm shocked and saddened by the behaviour of some of the people in this thread. People that I know aren't vindictive by nature and should know better. I agree with BigRed. It is a sad day and time in the Canada section.