Castellana #91- Time to put some rumors to rest | FerrariChat

Castellana #91- Time to put some rumors to rest

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by UAS, Apr 18, 2014.

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  1. UAS

    UAS Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jul 2, 2008
    1,193
    Glen Cove, NY
    #1 UAS, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After recent irritating chatter about the legitimacy of 2011 & 2013 CCR 360 Class Champion Peter Castellana, we decided to put his car on the dyno and share the results & video.


    As CCR grows and enforces its car restrictions and requirements, We (Universal Autosports) want to be proactive in being very clear about our customers cars, modification and history. The car was sent to a 3rd party dyno shop today, and you can see the results below. Hopefully these results will silence the suspicions, and solidify his (2) CCR Championships:

    Modifications from Stock:

    - Fabspeed Hedders & straight pipe exhaust
    - Full Carbon GT Aero Kit (Wing, front bumper and splitter only)
    - Penske (3) way adjustable suspension
    - K & N air filters

    Known History:

    The car was originally purchased and raced by Roberto Fata in the 2001 and 2002 season, with Ferrari of Long Island. The car was originally yellow. Before the 2003 season, the engine was refreshed by coincidentally our current technician Luigi Scala. The engine was refreshed using Factory Ferrari parts, and the only refreshed pieces were rings, bearings and valve job. No aftermarket parts, as this was done under the Factory Challenge rules, regulations and supervision of FNA.

    The car was then tested for the frist time at Cavallino PBIR in 2003, where Roberto crashed the car on the 2nd lap, and the car landed in a tree (yes literally in a tree). The car was then bought by a body shop in NJ, and had the body repaired and car fixed, over the coarse of almost 3 years. No mechanical repairs were made.

    We (Universal) bought the car from the repairing body shop in late 2006, and it was kept in storage and unused until late 2009 when we sold it to Peter Castellana.

    Turn up volume: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAWTWM46lc&feature=youtu.be


    Sorry to tell everyone that is was Peter's driving talents, and 25+ experience winning races, not the car. Case closed?
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  2. bigboy

    bigboy Rookie

    Dec 24, 2006
    33
    #2 bigboy, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I suggest that if one doubts of the simple fact that Pete is a hot shoe, they have yet to read Malcom Gladwell's book The Outliers. (Outliers: The Story of Success - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    Probably the most important point lost in all of this heated b.s. is Peter's humility. Here is a guy that wiped the class's ASS by more than 50 seconds in a 30 minute race (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=614310795313273&set=pb.269287126482310.-2207520000.1397856340.&type=3&theater) but posted no video. Had there been another 16 laps, he would have lapped his entire class. In fact, he beat more than half of the 430 class.

    Peter made no public statements, pointed no fingers, made no pointed barbs or jokes as he well could have. Not Peter, instead he just shrugged his shoulders, smiled, whispered a thank you and headed home to his grand children. A class act all would do well to study.

    It's always easy to make accusation vs. facing the truth that you simply cannot beat seat time. Driving fast is an acquired & hard fought skill not an entitlement. Small thinking assumes that success in ANY other field affords a transference of competency.

    My humble opinion is that the real competitor, the real man, would be quick to offer some eye to eye, man to man apologies in the CCR 360 paddock at Sebring on 5.8.14.

    Just my $.02 - even though no one asked.

    Bruce Ledoux
    #82 360 Class
    ChallengeClubRacing.com

    btw- my dyno sheet attached, just to set the stage for my upcoming point at our next race together.
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  3. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 8, 2005
    3,767
    NYC, FL
    Full Name:
    Jerome
    I ran 2nd behind Peter in race two and I can tell you that his driver skills is what put him ahead of all of us by a wide margin. His late braking points and higher corner speeds plus his early throttle application exiting the corners is what makes him so fast.
    I don't think I need to submit a dyno sheet since my car was the slowest of all in the banking do I?
     
  4. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,067
    Pocono Sportscar
    Full Name:
    Jim McGee
    #4 Dr_ferrari, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Completed our dyno run on Ken marlin`s 360 Challenge From Pocono Sportscar as per request.
    We basically have the same improvements that Castellana has on his car.

    Although we appear to have more horsepower, Peter is just that much better a driver.

    Really impressive watching him drive.

    Best regards,

    Jim McGee - Pocono Sportscar
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  5. SidelineSportsPhotography

    Jan 4, 2012
    7
    at those turns......


    Hi All,

    As the CCR series photographer, and retired professional instructor, I will only to three points here.

    One, Peter has phenomenal mid corner speed. This translates into much straight line speed.

    Two, Peter rarely sets a tire wrong. He is online, on track and releases his car as fast as anyone in the series. This translates into more straight line speed.

    Three, Peter's car doesn't sound any different than others at pace on track. As a matter of fact, it sounds less aggressive than some. In other words, his injector cycles, cam timing and exhausts do not come off as AUDIBLY different than any other car.

    I've watched Randy Pobst take a Miata with 50 less HP and pass a VW GTI in Conti on a straight, more times than I can count, thanks to his mid corner speed translating into straight line speed.

    I applaud the series efforts to try and make the racing as close as possible.

    As per the dyno, having watched these be used for equalization for over two decades in pro racing, I only advise four things:

    1) Have all cars run the exact same fuel.

    2) Impound all cars post the first race, immediately from the hot pits, and lock them down in a parc ferme.

    2) Let all cars cool 30 minutes. The cars straight off the track to the dyno will make less HP, the longer a car cools, the more HP it will make.

    3) Have a neutral series staff person (I know, not fun letting anyone run your car) operate the car on the dyno (Peter Argetsinger?).


    In my opinion, if a dyno was to be used to try and equalize the cars, the best would have been to have a dyno arrive at the track during race one and then impound and test the cars, which is what Grand Am always did.

    Of course, In GA, some teams had bluetooth abilities to detune the cars ON THE DYNO, from what I've "heard".

    Oh well, just my thoughts. : )
     
  6. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    490
    Florida and Idaho
    #6 RotarySwingGolf, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If you google it mustang dynos tend to show 6-13% less than a Dynojet. NASA actually adds 10% to your dyno when you do ur dyno certification on a mustang. I was on Titan motorsports Dynojet that kens car was on a few weeks ago and here are my numbers from the same dyno to be able to compare on the same dynos
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  7. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    490
    Florida and Idaho
    The dynos I sent you are the only two that have been done. I pulled 304 and 301 in the second one I think. The power drop off is assumed to be the abs error on a two wheel dyno like I told you. I've never shown 320, the dyno operator thought it might be in that range give the curve that it was on before the drop off at 7500 when the abs error kicked in.

    My point about the dynos is that kens car May or not be as far off as they think because you can't compare a Dynojet and mustang pull.
     
  8. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    I see, there was an error in this test. I took your post to mean this was what your car should Dyno at and that it was high bc it was a Dynojet. If your car pulls 320 or more like you think it should it would be in line with Peter and Bruce.

    Regardless we will Dyno all the cars at Sebring.

    It would be interesting to see cars dynoed and telemetry over-layed so we can get a picture of why one car went around the track faster than another.
     
  9. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    #9 rexrcr, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
    I'm having a flashback moment, strike that, make it Groundhog Day; sounds like nothing at all has changed in the last couple decades regarding drivers and crew accusing / alluding cheating be top finishing drivers.

    I'm not naive, there are guys who do outright cheat and those who creatively interpret rules.

    In 2000 Ferrari of Houston went so far as to make their data public, we'd use it for driver coaching overlays, to quell the unfounded accusations.

    News flash: talent does make that significant of a difference that you are convinced the pole sitter has 100 hp over the rest of the field.

    I applaud the transparency of posting data.

    To those not finishing up front, ask yourself "am I absolutely optimizing every aspect of my efforts", from car prep to physical and mental prep. If not, or you are not certain, seek professional consultants in each of these areas, as you would if your business was under performing.

    Don't think you need a coach? Step one is to get over yourself. ;-)

    Best,
    Rob




    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,067
    Pocono Sportscar
    Full Name:
    Jim McGee
    +1 .....well said...
     
  11. bigboy

    bigboy Rookie

    Dec 24, 2006
    33
    #11 bigboy, Apr 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Rob - you pegged it.

    I can't explain why I'm drawn to be involved in a discussion that is such an obvious & useless waste of time.

    Chuck - you're really doing yourself a severe dis-service.

    A few items I've picked up on since this started:

    1. Your start video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOFvMandhvo You can hear how much slower you are to throttle than the others. You are slow to throttle because you demon brake the turns moving your minimum apex speed to the wrong part of the turn. You are fast in, slow out. Buy this, AIM Solo DL OBDII With OBDII Capability & Feedback plug it into your OBDII port and then overlay data with any of the fellow drivers (assuming they'll share with you still). It will be an eye opener for you.

    2. Misleading dyno postings:

    You knowingly passed on a faulty Dynojet dyno on this forum in an attempt to demonstrate your engine to have less power than you know it to have. It appeared that John has asked you a question that later lead to a confession. I asked John what led to this and he forwarded me your correspondence. It appeared that over the course of hours you pretended this was an accurate report and only after John questioned you twice on the matter did you confess.

    You specifically stated:

    "here are my numbers from the same dyno to be able to compare on the same dynos,". You then Emailed John to "have on record ", and it showed Ken had 58 hp more hp. John again questioned that he recalled you mentioned to him that you didn't go to max RPM or power. You responded emphatically, that it was a "Full pull to 8500 304hp."

    Only after questioning you again, with more information on the graph did you come clean to John and the public that there was an "abs" error that led to a false pull.

    3. "ABS Error" - what is that? We're referring to the Anti-lock Brake Sensors (ABS) right? If there is any problem, it MIGHT be the traction control (ASR). Simply shutting off the ASR solves the issue. The dyno operator knew that as he also did Ken's car. Notice in the three attached pictures - your peers/competitors all successfully dyno'd on a two wheel machine.

    It could be well possible that you've got an electrical issue that leaves you down on power. As you know, these cars are 10-15 years old with an electronics package that was never strong to begin with. Have you soldered your connections yet? My guess is no. I say that because you appeared for your second race EVER to a fast track, with fast drivers in WELL prepared cars without an aero kit, using oem shocks and no credible race history.

    Last I checked - there are no talent scouts here, there is no prize money or ladder system to pro driving, no one cares. This is a personal fulfillment undertaking. You want a shot at the aforementioned? Drive a Conti/World Challenge/Porsche Cup race & you'll get all that along with a real slice of humble pie. It might even be the whole pie when we stop to consider that you:

    1. Came in last and not without plowing into Ken at your first CCR race.
    2. Protested the guy you hit.
    3. Accused the entire 360 field of cheating.
    4. Attempted then to pass on a faulty dyno report as representing your handicap.

    Not a very gentlemanly start in a place rich with the knowledge & information that you want. The group wants fun, friendly, hard fought competition. Pete & I used to hug after races, regardless of who won. I've personally done over 2000 laps at Daytona racing in three Rolex 24hrs. My teammates were factory Chevy & Porsche drivers. In the Daytona garage - I had offered to spend time iRacing with you and doing data overlays in an attempt to share those lessons & experiences (sorry ken). There is no incentive for me to share that with you, in fact, there is a measurable dis-incentive…..yet it is exactly that which is the spirit of the league and drivers.

    Do you think that when all the dyno sheets are in, and no one has the advantage you say they do, that the group suddenly forgives you for the online/public character assassination?

    I think you owe a few people an apology with the hope they will grant you forgiveness in return. My advice is to drop this and spend the same energy & tenacity working on your seat time. You could be a fantastic driver if you re-aligned your focus to something constructive vs. this destructive/divisive war you've waged.
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  12. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    490
    Florida and Idaho
    Bruce, I also don't know why you are jumping on this because you simply are missing all the facts, so let me help fill in the blanks for you.

    I sent John the MOST RECENT dyno, look at the dates... The exhaust cam timing was off 7 degrees on one side, Speedwork adjusted it and I took it in to get it redyno'd and it actually lost a few HP. I didn't see the point in sending in a dyno that was older and before a change to the motor which Bill set back to factory spec.

    On that dyno I got the ABS error - YES ABS, not ASR as it was disabled. Google and FCHAT search are your friends here, it's happened on many 360's. We still don't know why and the only fix they think is to put it on a four wheel dyno instead of a two. They think because the front wheels aren't spinning it causes the ABS error. When this happens, it seems to cut power at 7500 rpm as can be seen in the first dyno. The second time around it cut out ALL power at 7500 rpm, which is what you see in the dyno posted here.

    As for protesting Ken's car, I approached John and Yulia, knowing that my car was bone stock apart from a 430 challenge exhaust, and told them that Ken's car was walking on me on the banking which is clearly evident in the video - the dyno tells why. He has 40-60 hp more than me which is all that I ever said about his car and clearly I was right about that - end of story.

    I don't think Ken knowingly cheated nor do I think his car is cheating now, I just said he had a lot more power than my stock car, which he does. Headers alone, at least according to some dynos, could be worth 20-25 hp and I have factory headers, so that alone could be a big chunk of it and they are allowed as per the rules. Straight pipes could add more, etc.
     
  13. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    Chuck

    I was about to leave this alone, but to again suggest that you have evidence of a 40-60hp difference between you and another car is absurd. Your allegations are based on two pieces of evidence. Both are incorrect, and both misrepresent the facts. The video doesn't show 40-60ho and neither does the faulty Dyno that you attempted briefly to pass off as representing your cars hp.

    The video demonstrated that Ken had 40-60 hp more than you?

    Sorry, it does not. The video shows a very poor understanding by you what is going on. The video shows, as Bruce points out that you don't understand simple concepts of slow in fast out. Ken pulls you bc you fail to track out, bobble at the exit and at times lift. I don't see a 40-60 up difference in that video at all. In many sections I'm surprised you stay with him at all given the way you dive in and mess up he exits. The fact that you still think that your video clearly demonstrates your point stands in the way of your improvement.

    As for the dynos, they don't show 40-60 up either. Your attempt to demonstrate otherwise was not candid. I've got a pretty good record of you putting up your defective Dyno as if it represented your car's difference to ken, and you only came clean when I questioned your Dyno results twice. I can tell you I didn't appreciate this because it was less than candid. And while I will document further, my suggestion is to withdraw and not further engage me on this point.

    The problem here is you seem more concerned with proving your point than understanding the foundations of anything going on here.

    We wil dyno your car next to others. But the only reason you were 50 seconds off the pace at the end of the race was not the fault if your car or the hp advantage. It was knowing how to drive.
     
  14. RotarySwingGolf

    RotarySwingGolf Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2011
    490
    Florida and Idaho
    John, I won't "further engage" you on this, but I do want it made known that I had absolutely no intentions of posting something misleading as I explained above. I explained the ABS error on the dyno via email to Yulia weeks before Daytona as well and as I mentioned, others have had the same issue on this forum. I don't know what causes it other than what I explained above and it happened both times I dyno'd the car, the first time it appeared to cut power after 7500 and the other time the engine shut down all power. If you look, Bruce's car also stopped at 7500 rpm, so maybe he can explain further as perhaps he had the same issue?
     
  15. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,149
    #15 Entropy, Apr 21, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
    Sorry - what's the point of this thread? Peter is a hyper-fast driver and his car is legit?

    Old news, it was that way in 2012 when I ran CCR.

    Are you sure the "ABS Error" isn't due to improper brake fluid flushing? That has been known to cause all sorts of errors, particularly conclusion jumping. Just wondering.

    Bruce's dyno sheet I'm presuming had his secret Nitrous system turned "off"? I do applaud Pete and Luigi for plumbing that in, via the otherwise nondescript fire bottle. The nitrous is really the only reason Bruce is that quick I'm sure. (you should see his wife's Lotus, it as a 4.7l conversion, it flies)

    Ken Marlin tried that at the Glen in 2012; we know how that turned out.

    CCR is about as close to gentleman racing as I've found. Hell, even 458 Challenge has a good spirit about it! If you crave politically charged, cheating infested cutthroat competition, I know a local "club" series that might interest you.

    This is about having fun - with your friends.

    Have fun at Sebring guys. Watch out for people with doctored shocks, makes a big difference in getting back to throttle sooner!
     
  16. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,149
    I'm disappointed to see that my last post was effectively a thread killer.

    However, this thread also reminded me of the 2012 CCR scandal between the #99 and the #89 cars, something to do with Viagra usage and claims (again) of inconsistently measured "dyno runs". If I recall there was a lot of criticism of skill and technique by certain parties during that debate as well.
     
  17. jacko241

    jacko241 Rookie

    Nov 9, 2009
    6
    I will say I am very proud of my brother Jerome, and how well he drove, especially the last race. Congrats to Peter on the win, great job!
     
  18. UAS

    UAS Formula 3
    BANNED

    Jul 2, 2008
    1,193
    Glen Cove, NY
    Jerome is a great driver and a gentleman...(he also has a really good car..:)
     
  19. jakermc

    jakermc Formula 3
    Owner

    Jan 17, 2004
    1,792
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Rob
    If point number 1 is true, I hope he got a 13 (on probation).

    If point #4 was done INTENTIONALLY, he should be suspended for the season.

    Peter is one hell of a driver. I don't get to watch him to closely as he blows by my 355 pretty quickly but his advantage is cornering speed over the rest of the field is painfully obvious. His lines are text book perfect and consistent. A well deserving 2 time champion and a stand out example of the talent the series is attracting.

    The point about the Mustang dyno is true though, you can't do an apples to apples comparison versus a Dynojet pull as the Mustang reads lower. When I was a series director in NASA we made Dynojet the only option for the GTS series and even specified a set smoothing factor (setting 5 if I remember right) in order to address this issue. But let me reiterate, that is NOT why Peter is so fast!
     
  20. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    A 13/13 penalty was assessed. We are being very strict with this.

    Dynos will be present at a race in the near future.
     
  21. dmundy

    dmundy Formula 3
    Owner

    Sep 11, 2010
    1,302
    Unspecified
    Full Name:
    Arthur Dent
    When we were tuning cars somewhat in a vacuum (for our team only in other words) I preferred a Mustang for several reasons. However on of the good things about Dynojets is there is not a lot of variance from dyno to dyno either. This is a really good thing for any series.
     

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