458 Challenge Car Economics

You're barking up the wrong tree then. You won't get sponsorship to run the challenge series and yes most everyone is paying out of pocket. It will run about $20k per race minimum on average assuming you don't get crushed by some hack driver which is very likely. Run a series like NARRA instead but still expect $15k per weekend to run a 458 or most any challenge car for that matter

 

+1

 

My neighbor won the championship last year I think... I asked him about sponsors and he just chuckled. Sounds like even the champs are paying for the privilege to race. He is with the Beverly hills porsche team...

 

So what is the rough break down in costs? This is what I would guess (but I'd like to hear from someone who actually runs a 458 Challenge):

tires and brakes: $5000
Misc (brake fluid flush, full tech inspection) $1000
transportation to and from $2500 (but you could trailer the car if it was a local track)
Track support (one guy to change tires, add air, minor repairs, and check out car) $2500.

That's $11K a weekend.
If you went to a local track you could probably get away with $7500 a weekend.


However the reality is every once in a while you need some major stuff done (new gear box, CCM rotors, Cf body panel). No doubt that you could easily have $50K of these larger expense per year especially if you ever go off track. Then there is depreciation of another $25,000 year. Add in adjusting set-up, insurance, trailer, tools, traveling to non-local destinations, more track support than one guy, entrance fees, coaching, things that break and I could see the cost being $100,000 year, $25,000 depreciation, plus the $7K per weekend. Divide the $120K by 10 races and you are at $20K per weekend. That excludes the $200K that you paid for the car that is lost investment earnings (another $20,000 year)

Does that sound about right?

 

Typical nut and bolt service will take 15-20 hours by a thorough team, so double your cost there. Pirellis are $3k a set, so if you're racing you'll likely run through 2.5 sets per weekend. A fun track weekend you can get by with just one set.

**** is just going to break, it just is. On my 360ch, I've been spending $3-6k after each event just fixing things are replacing worn parts at the end of life cycle. But that's pretty much done now, so that car is extremely well sorted and should run for cheap (relatively).

My 458ch has only had one thing break so far, it was minor, small repair. (Except for the gearbox grenading, forgot about that one, there's another $20k) Otherwise you shouldn't run into much there. Transport is pretty close depending on where you're going obviously.

Track support though, now you've got issues. For the record, I support my cars myself in the winter, but I have a fair bit of experience, but there is still stuff that I learn/break that I either can't fix at the track or don't want to (ie, you break a half shaft, it's not a big deal to replace it, but do you want to while you're at a track weekend?). What about setup changes? Need someone that knows what they're doing here.

For the 458, you have to have VCI to know what the hell is going on with the car. It's about $12k and then you have to know how to use it. If not, you're going to need a team with one. You might find a one man show that can do everything but, you probably will have to cover at least two people's costs, a mechanic and an engineer/guy running the show. But, your cost of $2500 isn't too far off here, but you can expect to pay more after you cover all expenses (flight, hotel, food, etc. depending on if you're traveling far).

Insurance? Ha, ya right. Don't bother. It's stupidly expensive and then the company will dick you around to find a reason not to pay you. It happens all the time in the race world, that's why most people don't bother. It can run $20k a weekend for insurance. You're better off hitting something (gently) and repairing it.

Yes, you can bootstrap it, get someone cheap and get by cheap. I did it when I started out and it cost me countless thousands in bull**** repairs and a $40k crash all due to me hiring a ****ty team. Now, I have a good team and good support. We have an air conditioned trailer with power, couches, etc. Most of the time at the track is waiting around, so you'll want to be comfortable.

You're going into the deep end head first so I see wanting to manage costs, but here's the reality if you want to run the 458ch.

You need a team with good experience supporting Ferrari race cars and particularly the 458. Setup for this car is critical.

You need to spend money replacing wear items on the car and going through it after every event - again, need someone that knows the cars.

You need to spend good money on rubber. Tires will be a major expense.

Lastly, you need to spend a LOT of money on good coaching, especially early on. If you pick up things quick, you can taper off and begin to do it on your own. But at first, you're going to need a lot of help from people who know their **** and that's going to run about $2k a day. For your safety and those around you and to avoid lots of costly repairs, don't skimp here.

 

Great detailed answer... Slightly off topic, but since we are talking about "costs" to race...

What do you guys do about life/medical insurance? Most policies I have seen explicitly exclude these... SCCA includes 1 million in medical coverage should you need it, but FCA/PCA don't as far as I know...

Do you guys just wing it?

 

As far as sponsorship in Ferrari Challenge if you own your own company (or are high enough up where nobody questions how you spend the marketing budget, lol) then you can "sponsor" your own hobby.
When you saw "West Fund" on Scott Tucker's car years ago that was his company. When you see "Herjavec Group" you could guess that it is Robert driving the car. There are exceptions of course but more so in Europe than here.
Pretty sure that if $30K per weekend plus the cost of the car and crash damage changes your lifestyle in any way at all then you're looking at the wrong series.

 

I agree... partially. Note that even in my 458 spider doing just 2 track days (in a street car doing DE days) I have had the following expenses:

-new radiator (track debris poked a tiny hole in it) $4500
-new brake pads $5000
-new tires $2400
-new CCR rotors (only 8% wear but one rear got a scorch line even though I had 1/3 pad left. Ferrari claims maybe a pebble got wedged under the pad. One front one had the inner part of the rotor wear a groove). Estimated cost $10,000.

That's $25,000 in 2 days without a team, set-up or stresses of a challenge car. So I can see where the $10-$20K per weekend would be about right. Also I'm paying dealer prices -- those cost would be half if I bought the parts.

I think the $30K is a little high unless you are doing a series with travel and a full team. But I certainly agree with $10-$20K weekend plus car plus damage plus unforeseen major issues.

 

Many challenge teams just charge a flat fee of $35k for a challenge series race. So it depends on who you're working with and what series you're running.

 

Helpful information. I am doing additional training and will be at Mont Tremblant this Thursday through Sunday and will drive my challenge car for my first time. My coach is around $650 for a half day, plus travel and hotel. I hope to keep my car on the track and avoid repairs unless needed. Tires is another story and will report back on that next week.

 

I'd love to hear your feedback after using the Challenge car for the first time. Let us know how it goes. Good luck and have fun!

 

IMPO....if the economics were ever a concern to you...a 458C platform would not be a wise choice for you....

There are many other less expensive racing platforms from other marques that are much cheaper to own, maintain, manage, operate, etc...

If you are hellbent on a 458, perhaps think of getting a road production car and going to track days.....you still would need to invest into tires (2500/3000) a set at the very minimum and GOOD QUALITY COACHING TO START.....

Good luck and enjoy..

 

Most interesting thread of the week...Question on tires. At the 24 hr Le Mans its not unusual to see the top level cars double or triple stint their tires. At this very high level of racing getting a set of tires to last that long is pretty impressive. But factory team dont care how much tires cost....
So my question is...On a spec series couldnt a spec tire be built to last at least the entire weekend, or longer? It seems that would be a huge cost savings, and even if the tires were 2-3sec a lap slower, it would be on a level playing field so no advantage to anyone...Even on HPDE days a longer lasting tire could save so much $$ it would be worth it. Or are there tires out there that last,but dont get used becasue they are too slow?


Again, thanks for those who've posted all this info!!

 

Ur answer is called Hoosier tires lol. They suck right from the get go and suck consistently the same for about 80 laps. They're slower and cheaper, not by much, than Pirelli or Michelin

 

I was told (I could be wrong as I have no first hand info) by a 458C driver that he has to replace his tires after about every 2 days (non-racer, just fun track days)-- but not because they are worn but because of too many heat cycles which eventually causes them to lose their grip. In a typical DE track day you might do 4 or 5 30 minute outings/heat cycles.

 

I have been told that 458 evo challenge series will average $ 35-40k per race weekend. The cars have very expensive body pieces that do not react well to bumping and banging. One part affects others so the damage replacement has chain reactions on these.

So 6 races = 240k

Two 458 evo cars = 500k

So $ 3/4 million for the first year if you wish to be serious...

Out of my pay grade. But I can appreciate the opportunity some can have. Good for them.

Robb

 

Pirellis are going to be pretty crappy after 8 heat cycles but again this depends on how much you're pushing. I may notice the difference after one cycle and if you're not pushing them very hard you can drive a dozen or more. At Sebring I know someone who gets 18 cycles in his 360 whereas I'll toss mine after 8 max in the car. The difference? He runs 2:24s and I run 2:13s. I'll go through probably 4 wheel bearings a year in a 360 at Sebring just doing DE days. Again depends on how hard you're driving the car.

 

I am not sure any pome mentioned fuel and the track entry fee.

 

I was doing 2:24's on street tires and thru DE Driver traffic yesterday. 158 mph down the back stretch. I wasnt pushing thru Bishops Bend as I didnt see the point for DE days but my coach thought i could shave 1 sec on that turn alone without changing my line. I used keep it pinned thru both of the Bishops Bend corners but after hearing about some spin outs (from the slightest oil or sand) I've been letting off on both cormers. Coaching has helped. With street tires I dont think I could get much below 2:21.

 

I may consider selling my 360 and 430 Challenge Cars and upgrade to a 458 however I hear these cars have gearbox problems

 

I had a friend that ran the 360CH series for 2 seasons, without any real incidents and it was a 7 figure expedition.

If you want to get a Ferrari Challenge car to go have some track day fun, it could probably be done on a budget. But if you really want to go racing, there are much better series out there, that can be done for allot less.

Gathering sponsors? Good luck. Sponsors are looking for advertising exposure. The CH series is not that venue. Most, if not all are self-sponsored by their own companies. When I ran an Indycar, my company 'sponsored' me. That actually got some exposure too!
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