Ferrari Classiche for Challenge Cars | FerrariChat

Ferrari Classiche for Challenge Cars

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by Ferrari 308 Vetro, Aug 14, 2016.

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  1. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    #1 Ferrari 308 Vetro, Aug 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. thibaut

    thibaut Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2004
    528
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Thibaut A.
    My understanding is that for race cars, classiche can recognise either (a) factory specs or (b) the spec the car raced in period.
    The issue is that (b) is very difficult to prove...

    My car raced in the French GT3 / GT4 championship. Its specs defer from the usual CH (more powerful engine, bespoke headers and exhaust, deleted active suspension, number of parts binned to save weight...).

    Although I did entertain the idea for a bit, I safely abandonned it.
     
  3. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Feb 22, 2004
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    Tom Wiggers
  4. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
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    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
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    Tim Dee
    I agree its all about race history not ferrari
     
  5. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    I agree and understand, BUT, it sayes that all is correct, all parts, details etc.,...
    I am really surprised how difficult it is to get it.
    Will keep you posted...
     
  6. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    leaves the question: why do you want a certificate?
     
  7. manxart

    manxart Karting

    Nov 30, 2014
    52
    A certificate could show that a car is correct and complete , in my opinion it makes a car really more valuable.
     
  8. manxart

    manxart Karting

    Nov 30, 2014
    52
    Completely différent product but same philosophy :
    Take a 100000 euros Porsche 2.4 T put 50000 in spares in order to get a perfect clone of a 2.7 rs 1973 , Will it make that clone a 800000 euros car ....
    For me it is almost the same thing with a classic berlinetta 355 and a challenge car.
    Right now in Europe à perfect and complete challenge car is around 200000 , but if The car is not complete and correct it is not The same price .
    It is very hard today to find a perfect and complete challenge car ( with all The spares precisly listed on the challenge spares brochure ) , for me the challenge cars that Will Be really valuable in the future are the one that could proove that They are 100 pourcents correct and the certificate is definitly the right way to show this .
    It doesn t mean that a not 100 correct car is not a good and valuable car , but anyway The future Will tell us.....
     
  9. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    #9 Ferrari 308 Vetro, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I agree with manxart!
    Ist nearly impossible, lets say one dozen of These cars are around.

    At the Moment only the 348 and the 355 from '95 and '96 are possible, all others not.

    And, please find a 348 or 355 in nearly perfect condition with all correct parts....
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    I can only think of a financial reason (read: investing in cars for profit)
    A friend has a challenge european championship winning car who will not certify it because it does not need that book. History is known. And....with patina.
     
  11. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
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    Pete
    +1, that book doesn't make it look better or drive better or change it's race history. All of those are more important than some paperwork.
     
  12. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    As many know: ferrari has certified fakes/reproductions classics and restored cars with different (square tubes in stead of round) why the h^&* would you give them thousands of euros for a book (worth 100 euro)
    Many here can on fchat provide photos and history on most classic and racing cars.
    5000 euro is just a complete waste of money. a real enthousiast does not need that book, brokers/investors do because they can show off on a concours or auction: see my car has a certificate!
    imho: utterly and complete BS
    Furthermore: if you have a red book from 2016 and after 10 years you sell it. you need a new book because an owner might have: new suspension, exhaust, gearbox, engine, wheels, seats, cage (after a crash) etc etc etc. As said complete BS.
    Ferrari need to stamp ALL major 'original' parts (that would be a very long list) on that particular car and mention these in the book.
     
  13. manxart

    manxart Karting

    Nov 30, 2014
    52
    Certification for a challenge 355 at tha factory is 1500 euros...
     
  14. manxart

    manxart Karting

    Nov 30, 2014
    52
    Inspection take 4 hours , and it is Also a good way to try one of their models and to visit Ferrari classiche ! Factory normal Tours does not include The classiche section ...
     
  15. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    But you have to bring the car, and if something is wrong you have to do ot again.

    This car I am talking is in Florida, so a little bit difficult and takes a little bit more money.
     
  16. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    And, interesting discussion, this is what I like ;-)

    So there is no one how has, or made a Classiche for a CH car?
     
  17. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,402
    Southlake, TX
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    I think it would be of value to have it done. When I bought the car it probably easily could have been done because not a single change off the track. I have replaced all the sponsor stickers and removed the bolt cage for a safe welded cage. I also have upgraded belts, seats, fire system, and few of the spares. Depends if your intentions are to maximize market value like Ferrari 308 Vetro, looking for a car show museum piece, or if you want to drive it.

    I propose unless you cocooned the car off its last challenge race it would be near impossible to return that state. Any tracked challenge car since the challenge days will have "little" things done near impossible to revert back. The question is how valid the certification is and will they notice the sponsor stickers not exactly the same, if tires the exact same old models, if the belts haven't been upgraded, do you still have the old pi system in there (mine does), original brake pads used, etc on and on. I find it hard to believe Classique will be that strict, but if they are only cars that will pass were frozen in time when they left the track last Challenge race.
     
  18. manxart

    manxart Karting

    Nov 30, 2014
    52
    Nobody needs a certification , but in my opinion it is good to have one ( if you can do it easily ) when you are selling The car . This could just help to do a good sell and a good buy
     
  19. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,426
    Austria
    #19 Ferrari 308 Vetro, Aug 16, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
    Thanks Rob, one more pice!
    I also agree with most you wrote.

    Personaly the car I am talking about is nearly in perfect and iriginal condition, also in first paint (yes really and it raced!) and I want to proof this with the Ckassice, not the value I am thinking, this one I will keep.

    May be next year I will do the Cavallino Classic, then I will see what the judges say...

    But interesting on this discussion is that there is no clear line with the Classiche on our loved CH cars.
     
  20. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
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    Jul 10, 2008
    2,149
    I agree - race cars "evolve" through their lives, and few are near factory spec anymore. Anecdotally, I'd guess that 97% of Challenge cars in the US have been modified beyond being sensible to return to "factory" spec, other than the cars currently racing in the series (and, even then, believe me, many are modified....FNA tech inspection is not IMSA or ACO level).

    Whether to make the cars work better, run faster, be reliable, cheaper to run....frankly the typical "CCR" mods make the cars better to drive, across the ranges, but trying to revert them back would be a struggle (parts) and a commitment ($$).

    Having said that, there are some likely museum pieces out there, Robb's 355C project seems like a real, full, legit, back-to-delivery day restoration that is very cool and well done.

    I am unsure if Classiche will "matter" to most buyers, it probably will to some. I also think "history" drives race car restoration values, and frankly Challenge is not front-page history to most. For GT cars (eg. to Classiche a Le Mans winning 458), I'd imagine you'd have to work with Michelotto and probably un-do quite a few development items, or at least get agreement on a point-in-time configuration.
     
  21. Ferri

    Ferri Formula Junior

    Dec 26, 2004
    842
    The Netherlands
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    Hugo Garritsen
    When is a Challenge car original and gets the red book? When your car got hit in race 1 on saturday and needs a new bumper, mirror and some new sponsor stickers, it gets repaired in the evening with the parts your team bought at Ferrari. You race with your repaired car in race 2 on sunday and win. Is this car still original?
    What's more important the victory or the bumper that was mounted after the car left the factory? Does Ferrari mention the results in the book? they organize the series so must have all info on the races.

    Regards, Hugo
     
  22. mrmanny599

    mrmanny599 Rookie

    Apr 6, 2017
    43
    NJ
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    Manuel
    I was told that my 360gt Michelotto could be classiche , it's going to the dealer in OCT after I run it a couple of times this summer ...
     
  23. mrmanny599

    mrmanny599 Rookie

    Apr 6, 2017
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    Manuel
    #23 mrmanny599, May 20, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Hi Manuel, what is the history of your very nice 360?
     
  25. mrmanny599

    mrmanny599 Rookie

    Apr 6, 2017
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    Manuel
    #25 mrmanny599, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
    THANK YOU ,She is a 360 GT 2002 RACED by FALCON RACING TEAM , I RUN HER 3 TO 4 TIMES a year she is great fun to drive ....I WILL post more pictures ....
     

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