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  #61  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fast_ian View Post
Early grave? It's the longest continuously running motorsport world championship on the planet.



+1 [Although, you don't sound optimistic very often D! ]

Why would "we" have to destroy it to save it though?

It's more popular now than it's ever been - You do have a point about "dumbing it down" for the sake of the show, but that's what "we" asked for.

FWIW, and a little tangential here's the latest from Bernie - He's saying Bahrain is going ahead, but goes on;



I'm not sure where he gets a few more races would need a doubling of staff, but we know Mexico, Russia and a few others are looking for a race.

It's not heading for a grave, early or otherwise......

Cheers,
Ian
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97143
My dark passenger must have his say on occasion but I remain an optimistic devotee.
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  #62  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:53 AM
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My dark passenger must have his say on occasion but I remain an optimistic devotee.
A pessimist is never disappointed...
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  #63  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
My dark passenger must have his say on occasion but I remain an optimistic devotee.
Fair enough.

Back on topic, just posted at Autosport (edited);

Quote:
Reactive suspension systems were banned from Formula 1 once it became clear to the FIA that their principle benefit was aerodynamic, AUTOSPORT has learned.
....
At the time of that initial approval to the then Renault team, it was understood that the devices were purely suspension related and aimed at maintaining ride-height - so effectively nothing more than a sophisticated version of rising-rate springs.

However, with rival teams having expressed an interest in the design, and querying its legality after it was spotted at last year's young driver test in Abu Dhabi, the FIA decided to look much closer at the reactive ride concept.

It is understood that as more details emerged about the Renault and Ferrari systems, both in terms of how they worked and what their benefit was, it became clear that the main advantage of the suspension systems was in helping aerodynamic performance.
....
Although the FIA directive states that the governing body views the devices to be illegal, there is nothing stopping teams from continuing to test them and fitting them to the cars for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix because the final decision on whether they comply with the regulations always rests with the race stewards. But such a scenario is thought to be highly unlikely.
Cheers,
Ian
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97151
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  #64  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:17 PM
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A pessimist is never disappointed...
And a stopped clock (unless on military time) is right twice a day.
I've made a resolution to be more appropriately positive here and will expect gentle pushes from my friends if I stray off that path.
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  #65  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:28 PM
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Italian media F1 website Omnisport reported further regarding the ride height ban and that Lotus and Ferrari don't be so concerned regarding this turn of events. But the interesting tidbit comes from them advising Mercedes in essence knew the ban was coming and are rumored have a suspension system which acts the same as the W02 rear suspension in that they were interlinked only W03 will have rear linked to the front. The new system by inherent design as just being a plain hydraulic suspension system naturally controls ride height and further works in preventing 'dive' characteristic. Never has a manufacturer hydraulically connected everything in a passive system so this naturally has me very curious.

The hydraulic schematic to this system must be just mind-boggling as I am sure each wheel is hydraulically connected to the other and a slave cylinder reacts to what that wheel is doing thus changing what the other is doing. If it's true, I'm already impressed.
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  #66  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferraripilot View Post
Italian media F1 website Omnisport reported further regarding the ride height ban and that Lotus and Ferrari don't be so concerned regarding this turn of events. But the interesting tidbit comes from them advising Mercedes in essence knew the ban was coming and are rumored have a suspension system which acts the same as the W02 rear suspension in that they were interlinked only W03 will have rear linked to the front. The new system by inherent design as just being a plain hydraulic suspension system naturally controls ride height and further works in preventing 'dive' characteristic. Never has a manufacturer hydraulically connected everything in a passive system so this naturally has me very curious.

The hydraulic schematic to this system must be just mind-boggling as I am sure each wheel is hydraulically connected to the other and a slave cylinder reacts to what that wheel is doing thus changing what the other is doing. If it's true, I'm already impressed.
A have images of the system going haywire and the car bunny hopping down the track.
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  #67  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
I have images of the system going haywire and the car bunny hopping down the track.
Nah - You need *active* suspension for that...... I dunno if there's any videos of it around (?) but apparently the active Williams of years back used to "jiggle" wildly on occasion all by itself! - Freaked everyone out the first time. A reboot fixed it apparently.

I do wonder if they're still researching the infamous wiggly-wing we saw on Phils car last year though.

Cheers,
Ian
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  #68  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fast_ian View Post
Nah - You need *active* suspension for that...... I dunno if there's any videos of it around (?) but apparently the active Williams of years back used to "jiggle" wildly on occasion all by itself! - Freaked everyone out the first time. A reboot fixed it apparently.

I do wonder if they're still researching the infamous wiggly-wing we saw on Phils car last year though.

Cheers,
Ian
I try to be light and humorous and you rain on my parade?


Besides a little wiggle in the right place at the right time is a nice thing.
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  #69  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:54 PM
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haha.

On a similar note, I do remember in late July when Mercedes announced a number of open positions that they had a rather large number of hydraulic engineers in the mix. I can only assume it was due to this system. I see one of two things happening with this: the system will either be very successful and every team will attempt to copy the system, or the system will fall flat on its face and MB will be lucky to end up 4th again. Tough call, but they certainly have put a ton into developement.
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  #70  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Fast_ian View Post
Early grave? It's the longest continuously running motorsport world championship on the planet.



+1 [Although, you don't sound optimistic very often D! ]

Why would "we" have to destroy it to save it though?

It's more popular now than it's ever been - You do have a point about "dumbing it down" for the sake of the show, but that's what "we" asked for.

FWIW, and a little tangential here's the latest from Bernie - He's saying Bahrain is going ahead, but goes on;



I'm not sure where he gets a few more races would need a doubling of staff, but we know Mexico, Russia and a few others are looking for a race.

It's not heading for a grave, early or otherwise......

Cheers,
Ian
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97143
You think countries wanting a race equals F1 being invincible? HAHA, thanks for the laugh. Korea and China wanted races, too bad they can't get any asses in the seats.

Indycar seemed invincible merely a couple decades ago. We had top F1 drivers like Mansell moving there to race. Can you imagine that now? Hell, even NASCAR's ticket sales are way down and that's obvious just watching the races on TV. There's barely anyone in the stands compared to even 5 years ago. Trust me, you underestimate how much audiences matter to F1. When people get bored/frustrated due to the same winners or over-regulated spec cars, revenues drop SHARPLY. Happened to Indy Car, is happening to NASCAR and F1 is not immune...

Remember when viewing figures took a dump during the MS years? Well, Vettel is doing the same thing right now and banning crap like this ride height system that might allow the order to be shaken up is only going to help him...

Last edited by TifosiUSA; 01-23-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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  #71  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TifosiUSA View Post
You think countries wanting a race equals F1 being invincible? HAHA, thanks for the laugh. Korea and China wanted races, too bad they can't get any asses in the seats.
F1 can't keep growing at its present rate. There aren't enough new countries with unlimited budgets nor enough possible race weekends. The only way to grow the pot is through increased TV fees and I don't see the new casual fans ponying up.
Sooner or later something's gotta give.
Once the speculators lose interest (NPI) maybe we'll see a resurgence of sporting interests.
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  #72  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:38 PM
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Sooner or later something's gotta give.
Agreed
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  #73  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
F1 can't keep growing at its present rate. There aren't enough new countries with unlimited budgets nor enough possible race weekends. The only way to grow the pot is through increased TV fees and I don't see the new casual fans ponying up.
Sooner or later something's gotta give.
Once the speculators lose interest (NPI) maybe we'll see a resurgence of sporting interests.
As long as Bernie still breathes F1 will survive, he is one canny man.
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  #74  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:23 PM
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As long as Bernie still breathes F1 will survive, he is one canny man.
I tend to agree and while he has no plans to shuffle off he won't be around forever.
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  #75  
Old 01-23-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TifosiUSA View Post
You think countries wanting a race equals F1 being invincible?
Pretty much. As long as they can pay Bernie......

Quote:
HAHA, thanks for the laugh. Korea and China wanted races, too bad they can't get any asses in the seats.
Not F1's (Bernie, the FIA or the teams) problem.

Quote:
We had top F1 drivers like Mansell moving there to race.
I've given my opinions on him before. He wasn't welcome in F1 after winning the title.

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Trust me, you underestimate how much audiences matter to F1.
Oh no I don't.

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Well, Vettel is doing the same thing right now and banning crap like this ride height system that might allow the order to be shaken up is only going to help him...
Nonsense. Viewing figures worldwide are as high as they've ever been. They drift around a little - down in Germany without MS, back up with Seb..... Down a little in Brazil without Rubens is expected, etc.

But, for worldwide brand exposure (WTF that is?!), F1 remains the best avenue.

As for the ride tweaking system, just another blind alley that would have cost 'em millions and bought 'em little IMO. [Although, as I said before, I don't like that Lotus got the go ahead on it a year back only to have it banned. C'est la vie in F1 unfortunately]

Cheers,
Ian
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  #76  
Old 01-23-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
...There aren't enough new countries with unlimited budgets nor enough possible race weekends.
*Exactly*

The balance he's arrived at is perfect! - *Just* enough interest (from both sides) to keep it expensive yet have a full calendar..... Entire countries can come & go, but F1 will survive!.....

Supply & demand in perfect unison.

Cheers,
Ian
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  #77  
Old 01-24-2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferraripilot View Post
Italian media F1 website Omnisport reported further regarding the ride height ban and that Lotus and Ferrari don't be so concerned regarding this turn of events. But the interesting tidbit comes from them advising Mercedes in essence knew the ban was coming and are rumored have a suspension system which acts the same as the W02 rear suspension in that they were interlinked only W03 will have rear linked to the front. The new system by inherent design as just being a plain hydraulic suspension system naturally controls ride height and further works in preventing 'dive' characteristic. Never has a manufacturer hydraulically connected everything in a passive system so this naturally has me very curious.

The hydraulic schematic to this system must be just mind-boggling as I am sure each wheel is hydraulically connected to the other and a slave cylinder reacts to what that wheel is doing thus changing what the other is doing. If it's true, I'm already impressed.
Audi has a hydraulically linked suspension system on their RS line of cars. Its called DRC and its linked diagonally. When one corner is compressed it pushes fluid to the opposite corner to press the tire down into the road more for better traction.

Its been around since 2002 on their first RS6 and I have it on my RS4. It works well when its working, but its known to be prone to leakage.
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  #78  
Old 01-24-2012, 04:20 PM
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Nonsense. Viewing figures worldwide are as high as they've ever been. They drift around a little - down in Germany without MS, back up with Seb..... Down a little in Brazil without Rubens is expected, etc.
Source? Not calling you a liar, I'd just like to see it.

However, we'll have to agree to disagree. Another 10 years with a host of bland new venues like Korea on the calender, over-regulated cars with over-regulated powerplants and Vettel running away to some more easy titles and we will see how the viewer ratings are...
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  #79  
Old 01-24-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fast_ian View Post
*Exactly*

The balance he's arrived at is perfect! - *Just* enough interest (from both sides) to keep it expensive yet have a full calendar..... Entire countries can come & go, but F1 will survive!.....

Supply & demand in perfect unison.

Cheers,
Ian
Bernie, the dutiful gardener. Keeping his little ecosystem in balance.
See F1 is indeed a green sport.
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  #80  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:02 AM
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Confusing as hell. So the bottom like is, ban or no ban?
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