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  #101  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
And THAT takes some doing!


Lewis is an incomplete driver who hasn't done justice to his great gift and may never do so but to me he's more tragic hero than evil doer
Hahaha indeed it does.

Lewis is chomping at the bit just a bit to much at times, and he wears his heart on his sleeve, is my opinion.

But anyway it gives food to the masses.
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  #102  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post

I don't see how anyone can hold Lewis responsible at all for Sunday's accident save those harboring a predisposition against him.
I think it's akin to blaming Alonso for not getting out of the way as he saw the carnage approaching in his rearviews.

Regarding the Twitter stuff, methinks that McLaren has an alienated driver on their hands. I agree with the writer who opined that they're allowing the same dynamic to pop up again and need to get a handle on it. His actions suggest that he may feel the team is sabotaging his WDC efforts and the frustration is boiling over.
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  #103  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kraftwerk View Post
So your telling me you cannot relate to Hamilton, he wants to win badly, you tell me why every TOM DICK and HARRY, think they know what makes Hamilton tick.

Nobody does, yet he is the one that gets talked about all the time, he didn't even feature in the last race, but oh no, lets stick the boot in anyway, I actually wish he would stop racing, so as to shut up the know it all know nothings.

He played a part in it, well yes he got got hit by a another driver, minding his own business what exactly did you expect him to do, put his car in flight mode maybe.

And it is nothing to do with him being a UK driver it's just plain bloody common sense, and I would say that about any driver in Hamiltons position.

And yes what Ham posted was wrong I have stated that, he is highly strung, and I can relate to THAT.
Steve,
I do agree with you about his passion and determination to win and that cannot be denied and I support him asmuch as possible. The fact that cannot be denied is that some of his actions are very much in question. I only want to see the best driver/car combo win regardless of who they may be. May I ask you if you aswell have seen a negative change in Lewis after he sacked his dad as his manager?

In the end lewis really has nowhere to go except down if he leaves McLaren but I do not honestly think he will nor should he.
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  #104  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
Yeah but the difference is that when you post a million twiterers don't read it.
Indeed. However, of those million twits () how many could actually glean any information from it?

It's being heavily analyzed elsewhere (some of us have *way* too much time on our hands ) and there really isn't anything terribly useful in it. There's even serious questions that's it the "correct" (fastest laps) that are overlaid.

Personally, as a geek, I think they should be "forced" to release this kind of data post race - Even if the geeks at rival teams can derive some info from it, so what? Next year it'll all be different......

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I don't see how anyone can hold Lewis responsible at all for Sunday's accident save those harboring a predisposition against him.
+1 "Haters gonna hate."

I said before, had it been anyone but McHam it would have been forgotten by now.

Cheers,
Ian
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  #105  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:38 PM
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Kinda ironic that the usual Hamilton apologists are treating LH as some sort of victim as usual while complaining about anyone's critiques. He acted like an asshat this weekend. The wreck wasn't his fault but his Twitter antics were 100% his problem.

You might say it's no big deal but IMO a willingness to display secret team data to the masses just to make excuses about poor performance is NOT good. Whether or not it was actually important information, throwing the team under the bus like that is never smart.
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  #106  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:41 PM
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Is anyone really surprised that Hamilton continues to act like a spoiled little brat?

I think it's more surprising that he is still allowed to get away with it.
1: No.

2: Mclaren have invested 15+ years in him and countless millions. They don't want to see him walking to another team.

It must be irritating for Button and others involved by working with him at times, because he simply behaves like a teenager (Gary Anderson agrees). It's a sensitive subject for McLaren seeing the amount of money and time in him, and bloody quick he is. They kind of need him more than he needs them, but for now, since there are no openings (not for a second I believe he'll go race alongside Alonso). The only place is perhaps Mercedes. But that's not open or closed.
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  #107  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:41 PM
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F1 is like soccer in many respects in that it is all about passion and loyalty so I am NOT surprised at the responses to my sensationalist thread title.
If Maldonado can win a race this year it shows that the top cars are all very close in performance meaning a competent driver like Perez, Rosberg or many of the others could win if they were put in good equipment. IMHO Hamiltons behavior is grounds for dismissing him and finding a young talented replacement for next year.
Oh and BTW I have many years of professional race experience as an owner/driver/technician
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  #108  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TifosiUSA View Post
Kinda ironic that the usual Hamilton apologists are treating LH as some sort of victim as usual while complaining about anyone's critiques. He acted like an asshat this weekend. The wreck wasn't his fault but his Twitter antics were 100% his problem.

You might say it's no big deal but IMO a willingness to display secret team data to the masses just to make excuses about poor performance is NOT good. Whether or not it was actually important information, throwing the team under the bus like that is never smart.
+1

It has nothing to do with the crash, as all the sane people have agreed it was Grosjeans fault and Hamilton played such a small part in it it doesn't matter (the astroturf grass is wet and quite deep there and likely would have slammed him across the track. Entertaining as it would have been....I'm rambling).

LH was a twat how he behaved, simple as.
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  #109  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by texasmr2 View Post
Steve,
I do agree with you about his passion and determination to win and that cannot be denied and I support him asmuch as possible. The fact that cannot be denied is that some of his actions are very much in question. I only want to see the best driver/car combo win regardless of who they may be. May I ask you if you aswell have seen a negative change in Lewis after he sacked his dad as his manager?

In the end lewis really has nowhere to go except down if he leaves McLaren but I do not honestly think he will nor should he.
Fair enough, I think you have supported him in the past, in this sport you can become hero to zero very fast, I do think he needs a lot of guidance in the management sense, and yes I do think he has been lead astray with some of the glitz and glam of his management.

However I thought his dad was back on the scene, it always seems to me that when things are going wrong he has a tendency to make them worse, but this can happen to the best of them, it all part and parcel of F1.

Head down, do what your good and drive, try to keep out of the limelight if possible, is my advice to him.
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  #110  
Old 09-04-2012, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kraftwerk View Post
Head down, do what your good and drive, try to keep out of the limelight if possible, is my advice to him.
Good advice.
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  #111  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kraftwerk View Post
Fair enough, I think you have supported him in the past, in this sport you can become hero to zero very fast, I do think he needs a lot of guidance in the management sense, and yes I do think he has been lead astray with some of the glitz and glam of his management.

However I thought his dad was back on the scene, it always seems to me that when things are going wrong he has a tendency to make them worse, but this can happen to the best of them, it all part and parcel of F1.

Head down, do what your good and drive, try to keep out of the limelight if possible, is my advice to him.
Many have said the same. Drive, win, keep calm and quiet and get a NEW MANAGER
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  #112  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:26 PM
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Many have said the same. Drive, win, keep calm and quiet and get a NEW MANAGER
+1

However, I believe many that are now saying he needs new mgmt are the same ones who said he must fire his dad.......

Cheers,
Ian
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  #113  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:36 PM
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Well, we don't have a first hand view of the inner workings/relationship at McLaren, but it's safe to assume that like any other normal successful/fruitful relationship in the world, there has to always be compromise...

McLaren has probably chosen to make a compromise on his childish antics in exchange for results. Other top teams probably don't share the same level of tolerance, and also highly likely why he's stuck at McLaren.

Are there other WDC winners available to replace Hamilton right now?
McLaren can't sack him because then it proves that the driver training scheme was a failure.

And Vizsla, yes tragic hero ... but I'm sick and tired of him getting 2nd, 3rd ... chances. McLaren need to control his off track actions now!
Pete
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  #114  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fast_ian View Post
+1

However, I believe many that are now saying he needs new mgmt are the same ones who said he must fire his dad.......

Cheers,
Ian
In baseball they say it's easier to fire one manager than 25 players.
Who'd guess it was tha same in F1?
Give or take 24
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  #115  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
McLaren can't sack him because then it proves that the driver training scheme was a failure.

And Vizsla, yes tragic hero ... but I'm sick and tired of him getting 2nd, 3rd ... chances. McLaren need to control his off track actions now!
Pete
The idea that a team can or even should control a driver's private life is scary.
An athlete with a free spirit and healthy sense of self is a good thing. Too many are packaged and branded like a consumer good.

Lewis is a grown man and has to be responsible for his behavior. If McLaren's farm system failed it is proper to recognize that fact. If only so that it can be scrubbed.
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  #116  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
McLaren can't sack him because then it proves that the driver training scheme was a failure.

And Vizsla, yes tragic hero ... but I'm sick and tired of him getting 2nd, 3rd ... chances. McLaren need to control his off track actions now!
Pete
A driver nearly loses his head, a driver gets a rare race ban, but it's far more interesting to bang on about how Lewis is doing far worse things by tweeting information in which the rival teams already knew about, as admitted by Paddy Lowe.

Mclaren set about training a driver through a program, they very nearly won a WDC with that said driver in his first year, then they did win a WDC with him, yes a massive failure.

You have high standards.
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  #117  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
McLaren can't sack him because then it proves that the driver training scheme was a failure.

And Vizsla, yes tragic hero ... but I'm sick and tired of him getting 2nd, 3rd ... chances. McLaren need to control his off track actions now!
Pete
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraftwerk View Post
A driver nearly loses his head, a driver gets a rare race ban, but it's far more interesting to bang on about how Lewis is doing far worse things by tweeting information in which the rival teams already knew about, as admitted by Paddy Lowe.

Mclaren set about training a driver through a program, they very nearly won a WDC with that said driver in his first year, then they did win a WDC with him, yes a massive failure.

You have high standards.
Not a massive failure but given his talent still a disappointment.
The standards are higher for those with greater gifts. It may not be fair but that's the way I see it.
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  #118  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kraftwerk View Post
Head down, do what your good and drive, try to keep out of the limelight if possible, is my advice to him.
Agree. I said that in Post 37 of this thread.

As far as this race is concerned only Grosjean is to blame-drivers MUST have situational awareness and these older tracks are much narrower than the tilke tracks-That funnel at the end of the straight @ Monza is always interesting. In Belgium Grosjean went into Hammy; Hammy was just driving straight minding his biz as was Fred, who came with a foot or so of being killed.
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  #119  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by VIZSLA View Post
Not a massive failure but given his talent still a disappointment.
The standards are higher for those with greater gifts. It may not be fair but that's the way I see it.
I would say things are totally and utterly out of perspective, with this issue.

To be honest I have had enough defending him anyway, haters can fill their hate boots, it is pointless and I'am wasting my time.

Thing is since I have been on here, it is the same old story when discussing Hamilton, start a thread with his name in it, and the result is the same, and the thread starter thinks HE is the star....
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  #120  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:11 PM
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Agree. I said that in Post 37 of this thread.

As far as this race is concerned only Grosjean is to blame-drivers MUST have situational awareness and these older tracks are much narrower than the tilke tracks-That funnel at the end of the straight @ Monza is always interesting. In Belgium Grosjean went into Hammy; Hammy was just driving straight minding his biz as was Fred, who came with a foot or so of being killed.
Thanks Paul, Agreed..
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