Why the giant runoff areas instead of gravel traps?

The gravel traps were created to drag out-of-control cars to a stop. They worked sometimes, but often cars would just skip across them to the wall. Also, vintage race cars and racing motorcycles HATE gravel traps, because they can cause an off-course vehicle to roll or flip. Gravel traps also make a mess of the track if an off-course vehicle is able to regain the track, as they then scatter chunky gravel on the racing surface.

In terms of safety, high-grip asphalt is actually much safer in slowing down an out-of-control, damaged, etc. vehicle that goes off course. That's the main reason that paved runoff areas are replacing gravel traps.

 

Agreed, there's pros and cons to each. One could say that Hamilton lost the 2007 WDC to the tiny gravel trap beside the pit entrance in China!

 

Pros and cons. It does take away the edgy feeling from the drivers, and drivers can come back to the track if they make a mistake. Not as punishing as before.

 

You mean worned out tyres

 

Ask Kimi about that...

 

Asphalt is only safer if the driver has some control over the car still ...

IMO they should reinstate gravel traps and vintage racers should slow down and drive within their and their cars limits. The only heros in vintage racing are the cars/bikes.
Pete

 

As Harvey Postlethwaite said, what kind of car would you design to slide over a gravel trap?: one with a flat bottom and fat tyres.

Although sometimes they worked. I wonder if there is the possibility of using a mix of both solutions, i.e: putting a strip of asphalt to slow down the car and then the gravel trap to stop it.

 

Gravel traps greatly increase the risk of flipping a car over if they go into it sideways on, and it's been shown that modern high-grip tarmac is better at reducing a cars velocity than gravel does in a run-off area.

 

Kimi? You mean so he can find another gate in Brazil?

 

Asphalt run offs can be configured to make regaining the track a time consuming effort.

 

Senna would disagree.

Pete

 

I love gravel traps, but they are not safe. A roll like Massa's would cause the roll hoop to dig in and can cause damage to the neck or head.


a 2 meter strip of REAL grass (none of that artificial **** that can still be used as track) and then all the parking lot you like will ''help'' the driver adhere to track limits. Drivers hitting the grass will be punished but also, when seriously out of control, still have a nice tarmac area to slide about on.

 

he did use the technique at spa a couple of years back to pull off an amazing win against a blindingly fast force india on race day. I think runoff areas are safer than gravel traps. Basically what GordonC stated in an earlier post.

 

I'm a fan of gravel traps because I'm not sure I would be typing this without one in particular. My club car had a flat bottom and was very low and the end result was small damage, slightly sore shoulders as the deceleration was severe.

I think with the law of averages gravel traps do stop a much bigger accident and also provide a boundary for the track.

I also do not know of any single sweater driver that has had injuries due to a roll over in a gravel trap, and it would be better to roll over a vintage car on gravel than asphalt, surely damage wise.

Without that gravel trap I would have hit a bank at ~100mph and behind that bank was a wire farm fence and pine trees ... surely would have cartwheeled into the trees ...

Would I have been able to sort it out if that off track area had been asphalt. I don't know? I do remember the car feeling like it doubled in speed on the grass, but used to that, but the reason for my accident was a brake balance sort of issue and once my front pads had reached proper temp they locked like a switch. This was the second time I had seriously missed braking points but the first time I was talked into it being my fault due to excitement, and I was able to only just go off the first time (different track and a track I was more used to). After this second much more serious issue I changed the front master cylinder size and brakes then were perfect and I had good feel through the pedal.

This is why if you are able to control the car the asphalt has some pluses ... if not then you will just crash.
Pete

 

On the contrary, Senna would have acknowledged that a gravel trap versus asphalt in that very limited area between the track and wall at Imola would have made no difference to the car impacting the wall and the freak occurrence of the suspension arm piercing the driver's helmet.

 

Remember catch fences? I'm glad that they disappeared. One of them was largely responsible for the death of Mark Donohue in 1975.

 

Unfortunately, yes indeed.

I well remember a whole raft of them lined up at the exit of Paddock at Brands - heavy 'chicken wire' mounted to huge wooden posts in rows! At the time, I guess it seemed like a good idea at slowing them down before hitting the barrier. That they'd literally get tangled up in the damn things didn't seem to occur to anyone at the time.

We've indeed come a long way. Thankfully.

Cheers,
Ian

 

**** me, people weren't intelligent much back then!

 

Hindsight is always a wonderful thing!..... And of course we didn't have the HANS device back then either, so hitting the barrier was a very, very, bad thing.

They also carried little air bottles feeding into the drivers helmet; The thinking was that most deaths weren't caused by the fire per se but rather smoke inhalation/lack of oxygen - ergo, if the onboard extinguishers went off, let's feed the driver some air at the same time.

That said air would also feed the flames didn't seem to factor in!

Again, we've come a long way!

Cheers,
Ian

 

HANS et all I can forgive, but chickenwire (presumably without the pointy bits)!!! That's....something

I sure hope that didn't last long.

 

How about big bungy cords?
Kimi's track return was so exciting we need more.

 

Thank you! - That's exactly what I was going to write!

And I bet Massa was grateful that it's an asphalt run-off area at turn 1 in Hockenheim rather than a gravel trap!

The problem with gravel traps is that they are inconsistent!

Too level and cars just skip across the top of them without losing much speed.
Too ridged and the cars dig in and are pitched into dangerous rolls.

Then there's the risk of a driver suffering severe head injuries as a car rolls/slides across a gravel trap whilst upside down as the car digs into the gravel.



PSK: You talk about Senna's accident, claiming (incorrectly IMHO), that it would have been less severe had he gone through a gravel trap before hitting the wall. As Gordon C has stated, with the amount of space available at the point that Senna went off, the type of run-off would have made little difference to the impact speed (and the actual impact with the wall itself was not the cause of Senna's death - As has been pointed out).

And lets be fair about this, Senna did not go across a high grip tarmac run-off area during his accident, he was travelling across grass followed by an ordinary concrete section!

How about this one: Michael Schumacher - British GP - Silverstone -1999.

Schuey suffered a catastrophic brake failure on the fastest section of Silverstone and ended up hurtling across a gravel trap at 190mph+ with very little braking available.

As he was on gravel it was impossible for him to alter the trajectory of the car at that speed as it would have put the car into a dangerous roll that could have fired him over the tyre-wall with deadly consequences, and what braking there was left became useless as the car was tobogganing over the gravel.

Now had that run-off area been high grip tarmac, the remaining braking would have continued to slow the car to a degree. Meanwhile, Schuey could have attempted to steer the car to put it into the barrier sideways (far safer than a head crash), he could have put the car into a spin to scrub even more speed off or, he might even been able to slow the car and run the car round the edge of the run-off area and come to a safe stop. On gravel, none of these options would have been available to him.

 

4rePhil and others,

You all keep ignoring the point I am trying to make.

Asphalt ONLY works if the drivers still has control. Often when a car crashes they don't and surely having the chance that a gravel trap might indeed slow the car down is better than just doing nothing and letting them hammer into the wall/tyre barrier.

Sure if the driver still has some control then yes the asphalt is a good idea but it is resulting in too much cheating.

I can tell you that when I hit the gravel trap the deceleration was massive. My car though had a front like an old Formula Pacific and this probably helped it dig in.

As for rolling. Unless the car slides across the gravel allowing the roll bar to dig in I can see no significant issue, but yes if it decided to stay upside down that would not be good.
Pete
ps: I do not remember Senna going over grass but he might have. What Senna needed though was for something to slow the car down because for whatever reason he was not able to so had lost control ... hence my point.