If Nico started last in the last 2 races (instead of Lewis) where'd he finish? | FerrariChat

If Nico started last in the last 2 races (instead of Lewis) where'd he finish?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Mark(study), Jul 27, 2014.

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  1. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
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    #1 Mark(study), Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
    Since we have a month until the next race... What would we have seen if Nico started in the very back on the last two races and Lewis started on Pole?

    Can anyone tell me (based on their skills and driving styles) what their races would have looked like, and guess what kind of finish each driver would have had?

    This season, I haven't learned much about Nico, as watching him start from pole and usually win a race (without having to pass anyone) is sort of like Vettel's dominate years where we didn't get to see what kind of racer he was from mid-pack.

    Spoiler Alert *************** below

    I was struck watching the race when Nico said "there was no way to pass off line when the track was wet"... as Lewis has just passed 15 cars (even if they were backmarkers)... and everyone talked about how the track was not a good passing track to begin with. Did Lewis pull-off a drive that Nico could not have? Pit Lane to Podium?

    I would have called it a fluke... but Lewis has gone from last to podium in two races in a row (after two mechanical failures during qualifying)? Who would you rank as the top 3 drivers at working their way from the back to the front of the field in F1 history?

    Like the NFL (makes me think of the longest return at kickoff) who has the record for most positions gained in a single F1 race?
     
  2. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Very good point. Nico took over a dozen laps to pass Vergne, yet when Hamilton was behind Vergne, he passed JEV within 2 laps with a brilliant move. In head to head, Hamilton has usually held off Nico (witness Bahrain, and this race in Hungary when again Nico had a tire advantage).
     
  3. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Not entirely fair that.

    When Rosberg tried to overtake Vergne their tires didn't have much difference (I think Vergne was 8 laps on his tires when Rosberg put on his). This track is notorious for overtaking.

    rosberg pitted and a lap later did vergne, on now finished tires with Hamilton on quite a lot newer ones.

    Rosberg only had one real shot in the last lap to overtake hamilton and Ham smartly made sure that Rosberg had to go over the grass. Even on new tires and ham on old ones, Ricciardo took his time to get passed hamilton.

    Rosberg likely would've finished 3rd or 4th today had he started where ham did. Last week...I'd say 3rd as well. The merc had such a huge speed advantage passing was easy. I think Rosberg would've taken his time a bit more to not damage his wing, so 2nd might have been in shot.
     
  4. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

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    Dunno, Rosberg probably doesn't spin and touch the wall on the 2nd lap so maybe he does even better?
     
  5. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +1 :)

    He certainly did well, but he was also very, very, lucky early on.....

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  6. DEAF1

    DEAF1 Karting

    Nov 2, 2011
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    Anaheim Hills OC
    Awesome drive by Lewis today... Gotta love Rosbergs crying... "let me pass" ..... He should have gotten close enough....

    All the "Merc sabotage" and Lewis continues to find a way.

    Overall great racing today..l
     
  7. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    Hamilton pitted before Rosberg (safety car). His tires were more worn when he made the pass. The move was critical to his 3rd place finish.
     
  8. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    The timing worked perfectly for Lewis and perfectly against Rosberg.

    The two guys are different types of drivers though. Lewis will aggressively go for the gap when he can, while Nico is more tactical, seeking to figure out what he can get during pit stops, etc. He drives towards a goal, while Ham drives to pass.

    Both approaches can be effective, but Nico's style relies more heavily on good qualifying and clean running. In situations like today, damage limitation would be the goal versus aggressively attacking for the win.
     
  9. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well to be honest that made a refreshing change...for once ;)
     
  10. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    That's true.
     
  11. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Are you ok mate ..;) anyway zzzzzzzzzzzzzz time for me I do have to sleep :)
     
  12. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +2

    Fair comment. As has been said many times, luck tends to even out over the course of the season.

    FWIW, I don't dislike him, I just 'prefer' Nico for reasons I can't explain.....

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  13. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    I would guess that Rosberg would have been more calculating and measured in his passes and as a result would have landed up 4th - 6th.

    Lewis is the best in the current field to start from the back and finish in th ehigh points paying position.
     
  14. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    Lol what??

    Nico had fresher tires than Vergne did he not? and he was stuck behind him for ten laps or so. Vergne had no drs.

    Conclusion: nico cannot pass a back marker who has no drs whilst on fresher tires.

    Then nico moves out the way to pit. Hamilton passes him with ease with older tires.


    Also in Austria we saw nico stuck behind the Williams. If he gets a bad qualy safe to say he's done lol.


    I predict nico would've finished maybe 5th in last weeks race and perhaps 8th or 9th here If he started where lewis did.


    To those mentioning how lewis went off at the start of the race today. He had very cold brakes. Nico, with hot brakes, went wide and onto the run off area twice within the first 12 laps or so of the race but because he had a huge lead he didn't lose positions. If he started from the pit with cold brakes he probably would've ended up in a wall
     
  15. ztunelover

    ztunelover Formula Junior

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    The best way I can draw up the rivalry is rosberg is cool and calculating, kind of like alain prost. Where as hamilton wears his emotion on his sleeve and is a great driver as well, kinda like senna. It's not entirely accurate but it's the best analogy that comes to mind. Nico didn't really have to do better, he is still ahead.

    I think both are very quick drivers. Nico doesn't take as many risks hamilton does.

    I think it was a comment that brundle made at the german gp that stuck with me. Nobody puts the nose of their car in as much danger as hamilton does.
     
  16. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    Had he started from the back i dont think he would be finishing the way lewis has
     
  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Predict all you want, a race like this is quite unlikely to happen again. So your predictions make you look foolish. You can't predict **** like that.

    The reason Rosberg was unable to pass the wiliams in Austria was simple; the Williams are the fastest cars in a straight line (beating the merc by around 8kmh in Austria). Your God Hamilton also was unable to pass the Williams of Bottas during the race, and had to wait for the pitstops, so please, get real for once.

    Hamilton should've known his brakes where cold, but he tried to hard and was very lucky not have sustained damage for his crash. It's incredible that you can predict the ''what could have happened'' with such accuracy, knowing that Rosberg too would've gone off and ended in the wall!!
     
  18. mnm

    mnm Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2004
    363
    Rosberg didn't even go into the wall when the rain came down suddenly during quali. Magnussen did shortly after.
    Nico is more measured than Hamilton (albeit a shade slower), and ending up in the wall? that's Hamilton's gig, not Nico's.
     
  19. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    My predictions make me look foolish in a thread that's sole purpose is to incite debate as to where nico would've come in a similar situation? Interesting...

    Austria: hamilton dispatched massa fast enough and was only behind bottas for a few laps after nico got out of the way (who had been leading for what around 15 laps). Hardly gave him a chance did ya.

    Hamilton knew his brakes were cold. He said so himself. Hard to know exactly how cold when you haven't had the benefit of a warm up lap though isn't it? (Incidentally, rosberg had the benefit to test his brakes on the formation lap and multiple more warm up laps but still went wide). I qualified my statement with the adverb "probably". I never said he would end up in the wall for sure.

    When making our predictions all we have to go on is previous evidence this season. My reason for saying nico would probably also go off was based on the fact that he ran very wide multiple times in the race with hot brakes. By logical extension, if his brakes were cooler then surely those lock ups would've been much more severe thereby sending his car on a date with the barrier? Simple logic.

    With regard to the post below you: magnussen is a rookie and, despite his pace outstripping that of button, his propensity to crash means he is below his teammate in the standings. Hardly a stellar example. The conditions in qualy were not exactly the same as the race and hamilton was not racing during qualy which makes predictions more complicated. Therefore the best example we have to judge this is the one I have mentioned above.


    Now Bas, you say that nico would've finished in a similar or higher position than lewis? Can you please offer some analysis to back up this baseless statement? As above, I think there is a general consensus that hamilton is far better at moving through the pack than rosberg (who despite fresher tires and 10-20 laps to do it could not overtake a back marker who had no DRS to defend). Enlighten me please.
     
  20. mnm

    mnm Formula Junior

    Jun 1, 2004
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    Er.. why is Magnussen pace outstripping button. He's been outqualified 6-4. Or do you just make it up as you go along, with big words so it sounds real...

    As for the rest of the post, cold brakes is not = reason for spinning out. People start from the pit lane all the time with cold brakes and they don't spin on turn 2. You lock up on cold brakes(or hot brakes) when you are testing the limits and you get it wrong. Is it easier to get it wrong on cold brakes? Sure.. but its also easier to get it wrong on a semi-damp track, which it was in the race.....

    To say Nico will crash where Hamilton did not is just silly. Nico is a more measured driver than Hamilton and measured drivers by nature are less likely to crash.
     
  21. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

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    Nico hasn't shown much in the way of passing on the track. Maybe its skill, maybe its strategy, maybe he's scared. Bottom line is he wouldn't have done as well as Hamilton.

    Rosberg appears to need so much coaching and guidance from the paddock that I wonder if he could finish a competitive race if his radio went out.
     
  22. Dincenzo

    Dincenzo Formula 3

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    Don't remember anyone calling Hamilton a "god" but you must admit that his drive was quite
    impressive. After all, he did almost set a new F1 record. You don't have to personally like the
    guy to know that he is a good driver. And yes, he does take more chances than many. That
    is why he is where he is in the points. If Alonso had a better car, he would do the same.
     
  23. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Alonso's actually done damn well considering what he's dealing with.
     
  24. TF110

    TF110 Karting

    Jun 26, 2010
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    Hamilton just proved twice why hes the best racer imo. Dont forget the win in Silverstone after the mistake of thinking qualifying was done. That might be because Rosberg dnf'ed, but he was being caught handily by Hamilton on the end of stint 1 and the beginning of stint 2. Imo, Rosberg would be top 8 maybe top 5, but his passing is lacking compared to Ham.
     
  25. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

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