Least good F1 WDC | FerrariChat

Least good F1 WDC

Discussion in 'F1' started by ren0312, Aug 5, 2014.

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  1. ren0312

    ren0312 Karting

    Aug 5, 2006
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    After looking over Keke Rosberg's 1 (!) win WDC I tought of this thread, so who was the least good F1 driver to win the WDC? Damon Hill and Villenueve actually managed to win multiple races in their WDCs, and securing the WDC in the 10 6 4 3 2 1 era required a much more consistent drive than today.
     
  2. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    You can put Phil Hill in the same bag with Keke...but this mean nothing, they both were great drivers, although both of them won because the main oposition died during the season. Hill won because Von Trips died at Monza, if not for that, Wolfgang would have probably nailed it, but Hill was very good and a deserving champion. Same for Rosberg, he would never won it in 82 had Gilles not been Killed and later Pironi smashed his legs...of course keke Williams was not in the same league as the ferraris, and he proved in years to come that he was as good as anyone else, also in myAbook a deserving w.champion....Can´t say the same about Damon, i mean, he won it fair and square but his car was so superior that any average driver would have done it...in the 2 previous years he already had had the ebst car and he failed miserably, even Alesi in the far less competitive Ferrari was able to put him to shame several times. Hill was champion despite not being a top five driver. To me he was the worst w.d.c of all times.
     
  3. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

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  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    When Button won the title I was sure he would be a contender for ''least good''...but he held his own against Ham so definitely scrape him off the list. He'd never be more than a contender though, as there are 2 far ahead of him:

    Hill and Villeneuve.

    And it has to be Villeneuve for me. Only barely won despite being in (by far) the best car, outscored in points by Massa, Button and Heidfelt. Whinger of the highest degree. Never once have I seen a whole team laugh out loud at their (supposed) lead driver because of the dumb mistakes he made (video below). Kubica, who was a completely rookie and had to replace him, scored just 1 point less than Villeneuve did in his entire season by just his 3rd race.

    He's done well in other classes, winning the roundabout 500 and 2nd in Le Mans, but he's done poorly in F1 IMO. I seriously doubt he'd actually make it to F1 had he had a different surname to be honest. It's a shame he wasn't like Gilles...

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz6jzJ1skNA]BAR Honda pit crew laughing at Jacques Villeneuve - YouTube[/ame]
     
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Completely disagree. Rosberg was totally lucky in 82. if anyone other than Pironi should have won the title it should have been John Watson - he had a huge year but was let down by mechanical issues early in the year.

    Villeneuve should have been in the hunt but again car troubles and Pironi troubles .... rest is histroy

    Pironi most likely should have won the WDC... had he won in Germany and then in Italy ( where Ferrari's were strong - he would have had the points. 1982 was about the most crazy F-1 year.. its had it all.

    Damon Hill - is a a GREAT driver - look at the number of wins he had - and He started very late... I dont get the dislike of Hill.. look at his record he's one of the best modern drivers up there. he beat schumacher, Hakkinen, etc...
     
  6. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    I get your point Tom but track record when you drive a superior car like the williams for 3 consecutive years doesn't mean much to me. In his first year Villeneuve almost beat him, in theyr first race together, Jacques was faster all weekend and only lost the race because am oil tube broke down...slowing him down.... and remenber the overtaking he did on Shumy in estoril? that's not for eveyone, Jacques was better than many give him credit for. Hill was pathetic in many races....just watch the way Alesi dispatches him at Suzuka 95...it's embarassing...or take nurburgring 95, another shame....or his clumsy overtake atempts against Shummy, in Silverstone and Monza 95....i'm sorry but Hill was just a medium/good driver who got his hands on a top notch car.
    Of course keke was lucky in 82, Didier lost the championship by only 5 points and missed the last 5 races!!! Hell he had pole by a mile won he crashed, and his team meate won the race.....after Gilles died he was probably the fastest driver out there with clearly the best car, it would have been a walk in the park if not for the stupidity of going out in that weather when he had secured pole. keke however was the best of the rest, and he was very, very talented, in 82 and 84 the williams was a dog but he managed to win races with it....in many ways, i prefer he won it over Pironi
     
  7. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Sorry Bas but Jacques proved he was good enough to be there, when he arrived in f.1 he had already many vicories under his belt, and in those days, Indycar had some real good drivers. He was good, very fast abd one of the bravest guys out there....the overtaking that won him the title was not for everyone. no one ever did what he did in estoril over Sumacher, he was a fighter, and an inteligent guy....of course he wasn't Gilles, but nobody elese is.
     
  8. Blulagos

    Blulagos Formula Junior

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    I don't think you could call any driver who won the wdc an unworthy champion. Gilles or Pironi should have been the 82 wdc, but history decided otherwise.
    With all the respect I have for Piquet and Schumacher, I think other drivers should have won the 83, 94 and 95 titles.
     
  9. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

    May 16, 2007
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    Button was the first name that popped into my head when I saw the thread title. But as mentioned, since 2009 he has shown real skill and racecraft with McLaren and won a few races straight up. No big technical advantage like the double-diffuser, no weather like his one win for BAR/Honda. So at the time of his chamnpionship I would say Button was #1 on my list, but has proven "worthy" since.

    2014 is not over, but dare I say Nico might be a candidate? Lewis is obviously faster but has had a career's worth of bad luck this season. And the car is simply overwhemingly good (similar to 2009). It really is a race of two in the Mercedes, and Nico isn't even the fastest/best racer on the team. I would guess there are 8-10 drivers on the grid that would be in Nico's points position if they had the Merc their teammate couldn't catch a break.
     
  10. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I like a good debate...

    lest we forget Hill in the Arrows in 97 at Hungary, his time with Jordan... all in inferior cars. and using your own logic and going backwards in time by driving a superior car - then Juan Fangio,Ascari, Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt, Niki Lauda, Jakie Stewart, Mario Andretti and Michael Schumacher dont deserve to be WDC becuase in their WDC years they all had superior cars....

    Fangio- Maserati 250 F- Mercedes W196
    Ascari - Ferrari 500 F2 car... won every race it was entered into.
    Clark - Lotus - all of them were the class of the field
    Rindt - Louts 72
    Lauda - 312 T
    Stewart - Matra MS80
    Andretti - Louts 79
    Schumacher - F2001-F2003.... all class of the field.

    Hill was not spectacular and prone to psychological manipulation with Head and Williams. but He was very good. and raced head to head with Prost & Senna 1993 case in point.

    when he started with Brabham in 1991 he was fast in very old beat up cars... he deserves his WDC just as much as any of them.... I yield the floor...
     
  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Completely disagree.

    Rosberg has held his own against many, most notably Schumacher and now Hamilton. From 2010-2012 everyone has said many things about Schumacher about it was either always the car and that his teammates where never allowed to race him and whatnot, or that he has lost all ability to drive.

    In 2013 the real test came...he was put against Hamilton. Despite 3 not at fault DNF's (all car related) vs 1 at fault DNF for Ham (forgot that there where others on the road and got a puncture) and he finished only 18 points behind.

    Further more...this season in all qualies where neither had an issue, there is only .1 of a second between them. So much for Ham being faster? I think this actually says 2 things: 1: Rosberg is rather good, and 2; Schumacher may have lost some talent due to age...but he certainly was pretty quick still!
     
  12. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Piquet in 83 - was very good, but it was really down to Gordon Murry who figured out pits stops and fuel strategy. BMW had an awsome engine as well. Piquet was there almost all the time....It should have been Prost - Renault threw away the championship year after year with un reliable machinery.

    Schumacher - 94 he was the man. 95 ? could have been Hill too. the controversy on cheating will follow schumacher's Benatton years... too bad.

    in 82 - nobody really had the clear superiority. Ferrari had a great car, and could have had a fantastic season had they kept the same two drivers to develop the car. Pironi was not a development driver - Villeneuve was... but speculaiton is all we have. There is a Pod cast from Motorsport with Andretti talking about the Ferrari 126c2 from 1982 that he drove at the Italian and USGP... he was saying how he would get wheel spin in 4th gear coming out of the Lesmos... and how much power the car had. he clamied that it was the best F-1 car he ever drove - better than the Lotus 79...

    he was on Pole at Monza in 82 .... but finished 2nd or 3rd. .. cant remember.
     
  13. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    wait, what? Schumacher destroyed the opposition in 1995. Even if he was taken out by Damon Hill at both Silverstone and Monza.
     
  14. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mike Hawthorn.

    won by a point, with only one victory, largely due to Stirling Moss's Vanwall not being very reliable, despite winning over half the races.
     
  15. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

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    OK, how about Massa then for the 38 seconds or so at Interlagos 2008? :)
     
  16. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    you could also argue that James Hunt wouldn't have been WDC if Lauda had finished the Japanese GP, or it had been red flagged or postponed. but Hunt did win multiple races and had a legitimate title fight until then.
     
  17. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    If you look at Hunts overall performance it was not exactly great after he won, but before then he was extreemly good. I think he was one of those guys who when he acheived something got bored with it. he needed to prove him self.

    Clearly Lauda should have won in 1976... if Ferrari had not had the broken engines in France and Lauda had won ( he was way out in the lead ) he would have walked the championship.
     
  18. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 GuyIncognito, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    remind you of anyone?

    :)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Agree. I think keke was the luckiest wdc I've ever seen.
     
  20. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    Luck seems to stay in the family too :p
     
  21. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I've never understood why people say he was WDC at all. The race is only over when the flag waves for all the cars, who are on the same lap to finish. Hence, he was never a WDC as Lewis was still battling behind.
     
  22. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    It does, the fastest and most talented driver i saw after Shumacher showed up....
     
  23. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    I didn´t remember that footage of the crew laughing at Villeneuve. Man, that probably hurts.

    But at the beginning Villeneuve was the real deal. Almost won his first GP, kept the fight for the WDC with Hill (yeah, "only" Hill, but he was a veteran and Villeneuve a rookie) almost till the end, won the championship his second year (some say that with superior machinery... maybe true, but at least he had to beat HH Frentzen who was highly regarded when he was at Sauber).

    And then nothing more.
     
  24. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Yes and no...Hill had in fact a great race in Hungary, nobody will deny that, but as i said, he was medium/good so it´s only normal he did well from time to time. He liked the track and the car was obviously very competitive there, he drove it to perfection that day....you can also pick days when Rubens (remenber Austria, Hockenheim, Silverstone) or even D.C had had good races and good victories....in Rubens case he showe amazing pace in lesses cars, before joining Ferrari. Does this makes them WDC material? no it does not.
    Fangio, true he was always in the best car but remenber that his main oposition at mercedes was Stirling Moss, someone that many drivers and journalists (including Nigel Roebuck and Denis Jenkinson...and i ca't remenber anyone better than them at theyr job)consider the best driver of all times. His last race at the ring when he recovered to pass both Ferraris in the final laps to become world champion will forever stand as one of (if not the biggest) feat in f.1 history.
    Ascari, sure the 500 f2 was the class of the field but there were many drivers driving that car and nobody could touch him....Jenkinson believed he was better than Fangio and Moss said there wasn´t much to choose between them...the guy was top notch in his days, best car or not.
    Clark...We all agree the Lotus were the class of the field but also 99% of the drivers that ran against him will say he was simply the best (no one will tell you that about Damon)....enough for me.
    Rindt, I really do't know much about him but the late Jack Brabham rateed him above Clarck so he really must have been pretty good.
    Lauda, in 75 his Ferrari was clearly the best, but Regazzoni was no slouch and could do nothing against him...76 we all now the story, however in 77 the Ferrari was not the ebst car, the chassis was extremly difficult, Lauda was no longer as fast as he had been and still he managed to beat the Lotus and the Wolf very well driven....and in 84 he again beat the best driver at the time with the same car, at a time where he was far from his best days....lauda was ion my book and in many people's one of the greatest..i know Luca holds him as his favourite driver ever.
    Stewart, he was good from the start, good driver, good developer, he as some amazing wins in the ring where i believe he won with the biggest advantage of all times...i don't like him because he is a peacock, but he was one hell of a driver.
    Andretti, never rated him very much in f.1, but together with Ickx he was probably the most versatile driver ever...the man jumped from f.1, to sports car, to Indy and he was always competitive, he was a great car developer too....i belive however as do many others that if not for team orders in 78 he would have not become WC, as Ronnie was obviously quicker....of cours Ronnie was also quicker than FIttipaldi and it was the Brazilian who took the title.
    Shumi won his first 2 titles without having the best car, especially in 95 when the williams was far superior...and he won many other races in 96 or 97 withoout the best car..his talent is beyond any doubt, he prooved year after year, regardless of having the best car.
     
  25. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    :)

    I've been rewatching old GP's and am now on the 2001 Brazilian GP...just saw Villeneuve making another move that just never, ever would stick and lost his place immediately, and cost him time to his guy ahead...again.

    Yes he has beaten Frentzen, who did very well in lower formula but IMO had on and off races/seasons...Somewhat a disappointment from what he accomplished before.
     

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