Just wondering why no Porsche in F1, seems like they're capable just like the BMW F1 before.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/f1/406254-porsche-f1-not-worth-them.html I think I read in Motorsport that F1 was considered when the LMP1 project was begun but as noted in the above thread they felt better value for less deep pockets
Firstly, what have BMW ever achieved in F1? They supplied some decent lumps to a few teams over the years, but as a constructor? Nothing much - IIRC, a solitary victory. Hardly proof of being "capable"...... At least BMW tried for a few years though. Seems to me Porsche simply don't have the balls. The only series they enter they dominate - generally killing the entire thing by outspending everyone else - and then withdraw. As Toyota & Honda (among others) have shown, that doesn't work in F1...... You've got to have that "something extra" to succeed - Passion? Commitment? I dunno what it is, but I do know Porsche don't have it...... My 02c Cheers, Ian
Thanks Jimmie, it's too bad because they have the funds, R&D, and the right people to do it, oh well.
Porsche has always been about longevity, not out right speed, thus they are lucky TAG had their back and at least BMW built their own F1 engines and with production blocks. Porsche is controlled by VW/Audi and they will never approve a project that could crush their Audi rein.
It's irrelevant to them. Their 911 GT3 and GT3 RS models are build with racing knowledge from the 911 Supercup (f1 support series) and other 911 race cars...and lets be truthful, that's actually far more relevant than what Ferrari claims about their cars .
1983 - BMW engines powered Piquet to a WDC win. 1984/85 - Porsche engines won the WDC and WCC for McLaren. Better than any Ferrari turbo engine by the way, unless you get excited about the 1982 WCC. Pete
True. As I said, at least BMW have done some decent lumps over the years. Nothing as a constructor. Not with their name on the cam covers. I don't think many people associate TAG with Porsche. I'll stick with my original comment; they don't have the balls. Cheers, Ian
That's as maybe. It's very true that they do pretty well in single make series. Who gives a ****?..... Cheers, Ian
And they don't need to . If you look at it from a bean counters' perspective, Porsche realistically has to sink over a billion into the project to be even remotely there and have a realistic chance at being near a podium. Is Porsche in F1 really going to generate over a billion in sales more than when they're not? I don't think so... I'd like to see them as an engine manufacturer though. Red Bull - Porsche has a nice ring to it
And they don't need to . If you look at it from a bean counters' perspective, Porsche realistically has to sink over a billion into the project to be even remotely there and have a realistic chance at being near a podium. Is Porsche in F1 really going to generate over a billion in sales more than when they're not? I don't think so... I'd like to see them as an engine manufacturer though. Red Bull - Porsche has a nice ring to it
I'm with you .... Porsche suck I'm actually surprised Mercedes came back, but they must have sussed out an opportunity to do a hit and run .... mark my words, if they win a couple of years in a row they'll be gone in a flash straight to the marketing men
Yep. That's pretty much it. A company of bean counters.... And it's common knowledge bean counters have no balls! +1 Fizzy drink maker mated to bean counters. Perfect. If you don't have any balls. Cheers, Ian
It's a VW decision for starters, and if they couldn't bring themselves to join after being granted the 4 pot turbo they demanded to join, then they won't be joining any time soon.
Everybody and his dog knew that Porsche designed the engine ... Plus their name is on the airbox: http://www.ultimate car page .com/img/48001/McLaren-MP4-2-TAG-Porsche.html Pete
Exactly. Porsche do not need F1 to succeed or make good / great sporting cars. Nor does Ferrari. Ferrari sell all cars/hats/shirts etc with or without F1. Frankly F1 is over rated as a marketing platform. If F1 disappeared what on earth would change for ANY car maker. Nothing. If the Chinese market evaporated then we would see major impact.
For a bit of historical perspective, let's not forget the Porsche was active in F1 in the early 60s, albeit without great success. The type 804 (which I consider to be a beautiful machine) did win the 1962 French Grand Prix driven by Dan Gurney. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Porsche's exit strategy from F1, the '91 Arrows Porsche V12. Made it all the way through 6 races until being pulled for a DFR. A cataclysmic marketing disaster for Stuttgart that undoubtedly left a scar. Albo advised the team the radio had more power... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Beg to differ. Outside of F1 geeks like us, I don't think anyone would know. And it's certainly not reflected that way in the record books. They show those titles as being won by 'Mclaren TAG'. (Remember, F1 rules state that unless you do your own engine, your cars *must* be named as 'constructor followed by engine manufacturer.') It is true that once it started winning (but not initially) they added 'designed by Porsche' on the airbox. Just another sign of their lack of balls! Fair comment, I was waiting for someone to bring those up. That one I admit I had forgotten about! I guess the bean counters may have removed some more balls after that. Cheers, Ian
For Porsche, it makes more sense to be in WEC P-1 and GTE than going to F-1. More relevant to race against market competitors than F-1 as it is now, a drinks company, Mercedes-Benz which is more recognized as a sedan manufacturer and Renault. Relative to Ferrari, sure, it would be great to see a Porsche vs. Ferrari toss in F-1. But, with the category being dominated by Mercedes-Benz and Red Bull, there is no guarantee that rivalry would be reborn. Expect to see Porsche re-doubling their efforts with the 919 project as if history shows us anything, once they commit to a major sports car program, they tend to stay with it unless or until the formula changes. BHW
There is also no truth that F1 will be dominated by Mercedes-Benz, Red Bull or Ferrari in the future. Porsche must do what VW tell's them to do and they have both consciously chose not to play with the big boys.
I guess Porsche really as no legacy in f.1, but they have the biggest one in sports cars, so that's why they'll stick to it....Ferrari wa sgreat in both and then decided to skip sports and only do f.1...a pitty to me, i would prefer less titles in f.1 but some more in sports cars..i would love for tham to take both disciplines again....Ferrari probably made more of a name for themselves winning Le mans, panamericana, targa florio, Mille miglia and others in the 50s and 60s than winning g.ps.....it´s a shame they stoped..
I dont think the relationship really works that way. Porsche SE is the holding company for both Porsche AG( The Car Company) and VW AG(The Car Company).....Yes VW has been given freedom to run on its own to an extent but in the end Porsche and the family members who own Porsche SE have the final say on nearly anything......