Hamilton vs. Rosberg - the educated (?) debate | FerrariChat

Hamilton vs. Rosberg - the educated (?) debate

Discussion in 'F1' started by maulaf, Aug 27, 2014.

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  1. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    #1 maulaf, Aug 27, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
    Since every threat and race is occupied quickly with the debate on whether Ham or Ros is superior under whatever terms.
    This thread is intended to not have that debate at all. Here we can discuss the very interesting developments in the battle between the two at Mercedes, accepting that both are drivers at the highest level, battling with a superior car.

    What I took out of Spa this week is that it might be a turning point in the 2014 season. As I interpret things Rosberg has left a note stating that he is increasingly unpredictable from now on. There are a lot of drivers out there with their individual reputations and to me Rosberg has always been a rather inconspicous driver, barely to be found where the action happens, finding a smart and careful way through races. With that he might have aided to develop a tame and predictable driving style and reputation.
    This is something other people can make us of and perhaps have done in the recent races. And possibly having identified that, it might be a game changer that Rosberg shows that he is capable of inpredicability and harsh fights beyond the edge. And in that sense it doesn't matter that a colission was caused. What really matters is the perception of drivers towards him in future and how that may or may not help him.

    As an example underline my thought, I always found Kobayashi has a Harakiri-tendency. He often dived into gaps that weren't there and bumped his way past people. Drivers with Kobayashi in the mirror always knew sh*t might go down any point and that can lead to rather leave the extra cm open instead of being bumped out of the race...

    Just my line of thought... Not necessarily much to it, but something I'd like to hear your view on.

    While we are at this point it would seem to me that Ham is increasingly frustrated with team errors and Rosbergs actions while Rosberg might or might not actively be constructing on a way forward to see him as WDC. This is an interesting perspective as the one is locked up in current misery of today and the past while the other is focusing on tomorrow. If Hamilton gets his act together and wins the WDC then I'd say it might well be a WDC he will have grown on massively.
     
  2. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Well for starters I'd say Nico has shown his true colours, to the masses, whereas Hamilton wears his heart on his sleeve, and always has done much to his own detriment.
     
  3. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    quite possible. But once you won the title some people might cry foul, other would name it cunning, title is title, isn't it?
     
  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Rosberg was generally regarded (by the public and almost certainly Hamilton) as a guy who would rather lay over rather than damage his car when either overtaking or being overtaken. He took the safe approach.

    In Spa, he tried to overtake Hamilton and (legally speaking, by FIA F1 rules) was next to him significantly (anything from front wing level with the rear tire) to attempt the overtake. Could he have avoided the incident? Yes. Did he have a right where he was? Yes. He did a Senna/Hamilton: Leave it up to the guy if you're going to have an accident or not.

    This is why it's a racing incident. They both had their fair share in the cause of it. The reason it's being discussed still is because it happened between teammates battling for the WDC, Hamilton used the press and subsequently a lot of his fans (I'm guessing by the comments on facebook and twitter, mostly the people that tune in for the race, and when he retires they'll switch it off) and because of mismanagement of the situation by Mercedes.

    Senna did this many times, and he knew whichever way it went, they would move over the next time. It's a massive psychological win that. Hamilton and others have adopted the same line of thinking and now Rosberg too.

    I think from now on, Hamilton will likely think twice how hard he'll fight Rosberg. They'll clash again.
     
  5. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

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    I wonder if Hamilton's delve into the strategy section so frequently when he's racing is taking away from his ability to drive effectively. He frequently complains about his engineer taking to him during laps, but he's stewing the in car questioning the strategy the team is imploying...doesn't seem like he has the same extra capacity MS or other more cerebral drivers might have. Thoughts?
     
  6. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes the history books say one thing, not the if's and but's, we shall have to see how it pans out, it's not a pretty sight to me though.

    I believe Nico is making up for his short fall in out right pace small as it maybe, in employing sly and debatable tactic's, maybe his last one and the reaction he got on the podium may not be forgotten as quickly as he would hope for.

    IMO I believe Hamilton was fully aware of Nico's intentions as in no quarter being given by him prior to this latest clash, Canada for example, he ran him off the track because yet again he got the jump on him at the start.
     
  7. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    To be honest I think you are referring to when he was on a qualifying hot lap,( I maybe wrong) so yes IMO he was justified not to have someone bleating in his ear at that time, if Kimi says it, it's printed on a T shirt the next day.

    You see here's the thing with Hamilton, everyone hangs on to every word he says and put's their own spin on it, I wonder why that is, is it they expect it, or want it to justify there dislike of him.
     
  8. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

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    Educated Debate:

    Hamilton is a former world driver's champion, and should be treated with respect.

    Nico Rosberg's dad was a WDC, so he comes from a racing family, and he currently leads the points, so he should be treated with respect.

    Their team Mercedes wants to win.

    The end.
     
  9. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I think that's all it boils down to, and it's exactly what he's admitted to. A driver keeping out of trouble during a race is doing the smart thing....but if you have a reputation as being the guy who'll just out of the way to avoid contact, that can't work well.

    Good on Nico for doing what he did. It doesn't seem in his nature to be SOOOOOOO aggressive, so this was a big step for him IMO.

    There's no doubt that he's as fast as Lewis....or so close to it that it doesn't matter.

    I still don't really care which one wins, but it is interesting to watch. Of course, as I've said before, at least if Lewis wins it'll shut the one eyed fans up
     
  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    +1

    Out of the 2 I want Rosberg to win because he seems like a more likeable person to me. Before Monaco I couldn't care less as I thought he was a bit of a wet blanket, but then I found out he celebrated all night and was last seen in the hotel lobby at 8am drinking champagne from a fish bowl. That's when I knew he was a worthy champion (;)).
     
  11. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Spa was a race in which nico basically said I'm nobody's ***** and as a result put the rest of the grid on notice that he won't back down. Next time hammy- or anyone else-will think twice before slamming the door, taking a wide exit out of a corner, etc. on nico.
     
  12. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Agreed 100%.

    Rosberg's new message : he's got an equal (if not slightly advantaged) shot at the title, and he's not going to back away from a fair fight. Game ON.
     
  13. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    As Ayrton said once, "if i make it easy once, i'll lose theyr respect. I think Nico simply wanted to show that to hamilton, that he won't get out of his way every time. This being said, i believe Nico is a much more correct driver than hamilton. Hamilton was the one that decided to start a war....He is a sour loser, and after Monaco he started whining, saying basicly Nico was just a spoiled rich brat that never had to figth for anything and he was the big hero, the poor guy ho came from nothing...what a lod o bull****...Hamilton than said they were not friends and become increasingly hostile towards Nico....He started the war in the press, Nico in simply fightinh an winning it in the track....If hamilton focused more on his racing and less on trying to badmouth his teamate he probabaly would have better results. Hamilton has a very long rapsheet of crashes and colisions with other drivers, mostly by his fault..(Massa can atest to that), and so can many others.he should look in the mirror before he speaks....he said after Monaco he would like to resolve the situation "Senna's way"....i Guess Nico beat him to that....So hammy boy, shut your mouth and get on with your driving!!
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Not quite.

    Their team Mercedes wants Hamilton to win. He has a lot more marketing potential than Rosberg.

    Hence now they have a problem. The resolution might be some unexplicable technical DNFs in the next few races.
     
  15. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    Why ?
     
  16. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    I wonder if that is indeed the case. I could imagine it the other way around. The German driver with the Mercedes brand goes hand in hand well. Hamilton might be hip and whatever but I guess he's not quite the person to attract the typical Mercedes buyer. Anyhow, Schumacher was quite likely a good asset for the brand. Perhaps, Hamilton was indeed brought in to win titles, but a Rosberg winning titles might ultimately be the jackpot for a German company? Maybe all this thinking is bollocks and you'd only want to write WDC on your label : )
     
  17. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    +1

    My views exactly. I prefer Nico's personality.
     
  18. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    IMHO, Rosberg makes a far better marketing ambassador for Mercedes than Hamilton.
     
  19. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    If FB/Twitter is any indication (and it probably is), Andreas' is probably right about marketability. I'm just not certain how an F1 would leverage that to their advantage. I'd say it's a 90/10 split favoring Lewis.

    (side note: the debate here is nowhere near as off-track as it is in social media. Mercedes is under constant assault from fans around the questionable tactics, antics and failures from this season. The reactions are over-the-top, imo)
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Really?

    So, a half-cast British driver from Grenada sporting massive earing studs and covered on tattoos, speaking like he was a gangster rapper is better to represent an iconic German luxury brand like Mercedes than a handsome clean cut well spoken German young man from a good family?

    Since when?
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    + 100 !!!
     
  22. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    I'm guessing you haven't actually heard many "gangster rappers". I don't think I'd EVER mistake Lewis Hamilton for Easy E, Too Short or DJ Quik...ever

    Also, it's a different world. Merc wants to grow the brand by connecting with Millenials. Boomer values don't really fly with that group.
     
  23. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    LOL< yeh right drive a Merc round Spa and get booed at brilliant, ask Rosberg :D
     
  24. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Depends on how old you are, and who you want to sell cars to, but that's a load of old bollox nowadays, you want reliable, buy a Honda.

    You want luxury Rolls Bentley, you want flash Ferrari Lambo, the list is endless, besides didn't Hamilton buy his dad a Fezza, oh my god who let that happen...:D
     
  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No, you are right, I haven't heard many of them... I just cannot stand the look of them !

    But Hamilton dresses and behave like if he was one of them. Yeah man ...



    As a Mercedes owner, I don't associate much my car with Hamilton's image.

    Nico, on the other hands fits the bill perfectly to represent the Three-Pointed Star, IMO.

    Preferences are always subjective.
     

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