10 Good Reasons For Three-Car Teams 10 Good Reasons For Three-Car Teams | Planet F1 | Formula One | Features | Editorial An issue that just won't go away!
Ive thought for years that three car teams in F-1 would be a good, if not natural, idea. Not for the reasons many now suggest in that the teams struggling at the back of the field are losing money by the boatload, but in order to make the championships more exciting and bring along drivers whom otherwise wouldnt have a look-in (drivers like Tom Kristensen come to mind here). Even if FOM and the FIA decide to go this route which now looks entirely possible, they could do it on a limited basis. For example, if the teams were limited to a third entry for (say) five races per season at their discretion, the third driver would not therefore be eligible for the championship necessarily but could help the chances of the two full time drivers. If for any reason one or both of the full time drivers falls out of a race, the third driver could compete for the win, thus helping the team in the Constructors championship which is what the teams are mostly interested in anyway. Frankly, I dont know why it has taken this long for the F-1 leadership to finally come up with this. Third entires could have easily been in play in F-1 since the 80s. Were seeing now four and sometimes five car teams in Indy Car and no one seems to be complaining. This is an idea that is long overdue. Hopefully, they'll do it right. BHW
The F1 grid is in dire need of some culling, and I have been in favour of 3-car teams and customer cars for a long time. With the increase reliance on complex technology and the huge costs involved during a GP season, I just don't think there are 12 teams out there capable to compete at that level. It's just not realistic to expect 12 outfits to design, build and operate each their own car to compete at that level. There are at most 8 teams at present that can race honorably in F1, from season to season, and really 5 that can aim at a championship. So, the best teams should be allowed to field a third car, or the ban on customers cars is lifted.
From Autosport; FWIW, I'm not in favor either. If push comes to shove, I can see another 'quiet' Bernie bailout happening, at least to keep it full next year. Cheers, Ian Too late to add third car - McLaren - AUTOSPORT
I completely disagree on all points!...... As long as they're within 107, and even Caterham is well within that right now, the minnows are as welcome as the big guys. There's always been backmarkers, long may it continue. I'd like to see a 'fairer' distribution of the prize fund. The guys at the front right now are, IMO, overcompensted where the guys at the back, who could really use it get almost nothing. (Nothing at all for 11th). 20-30MM would be a huge boost for Caterham for example. As it is now, they're not going to get a dime. I'm also with Sir Frank (and the other 'racers' left) about customer cars. It's just not right. It's the world *constructors* championship! And the money is handed out based on results therein. It's not, and hasn't for a long, long time, been a 'buy a car and go play' (the much hated spec series!) championship. Cheers, Ian
There could be a clause entered into any "customer car" entry agreement stating a forfeiture of Constructor points acquisition - i.e. "customer cars" would not be eligible for Constructor points. This would be similar to the "top two finishing cars" being eligible for points in the proposed 3 car team concept.
There are plenty of clauses that could be introduced to remdy to that problem. Of course a customer team wouldn't be consdered as a constructor, and points scored by a driver on a customer car shouldn't count for te WCC.
No surprise there !! Forget about the "constructors" championship for a start. Most teams are not constructors! They source their engines outside. Only Ferrari and Mercedes make their own engine, at the moment. Honda and Toyota were also constructors, making ther own cars - chassis AND engines The so-called "constructors" championship is in fact a disguised team championship used as a ploy to distribute the money among winners. So, you prefer to see 6 or 8 no-hopers to play mobile-chicanes at every GP, rather than see 6 or 8 drivers joining the fight with a chance to race on competitive cars. There would maybe still be some hopeless backmarkers, but at least everybody would know that it's because of the driver, and not the car. Now, we don't know if a car that is lapped twice has a very talented driver at the wheel or not. Driving for a second rate team is the graveyard for many skilled drivers: most are never given a chance of a good drive later. Frank Williams is a very bad example to give: he started in F1 as a customer team! He raced March, De Tomaso, Brabham, Iso-Politoys before starting making his own chassis. That's the way Sir Frank entered F1, by buying cars. So why does he want now to deny the same thing to people who want to have a go|? Is it another case of "I am alright Jack?" Just like there are not 12 countries in the world capable to make their own fighter jets nowadays (because of cost and technology required), there are not 12 F1 constructors out there. Any serious observer can see it. There could be 12 teams capable of entering and competing in GP, if some of them could buy their cars, rather than trying hopelessly to design and make them.
Well first off please don't club me over the head with rules and regulations concerning my comments. Hate to say it but I guess a 3 car team could be used on a trial basis. Either way you cut it the odds for points are in favor of the stronger teams...even if you just count the top two cars of a team on any race. I have always been a person with no limits or few of them. The word NO is not in my vocabulary at all. So are we saying on the grid the max is 24 race cars? So if we have three car teams those in the back of the pack are axed? I guess we need bigger pit lanes and tracks because I have always believed the number in F1 should be increased. There needs to be some change along the line for those that want to purchase components and go racing. I know it's a simplistic statement but hey I believe in trying small changes and not remaining stagnant.
The requirement is, and has (rightly,IMO) been for a long time that you build the car. You can source your lump from wherever. I, nor Bernie, nor the teams themselves, are going to forget that fact. Enzo didn't like the "garagistes" with DFV power. Fair enough. But they remain *car* constructors. I maintain that as long as they're within 107 they should be out there. Comparisons to what it was "back in the day" & fighter jets notwithstanding. Cheers, Ian
[quote="StormBringer";143414079] So are we saying on the grid the max is 24 race cars? So if we have three car teams those in the back of the pack are axed? I guess we need bigger pit lanes and tracks because I have always believed the number in F1 should be increased. There needs to be some change along the line for those that want to purchase components and go racing. I know it's a simplistic statement but hey I believe in trying small changes and not remaining stagnant.[/quote] If more than 24 cars are entered, we can have pre-qualifications like we had in the past. When the weak teams will be tired to travel to GP to be constantly eliminated, they will go. The whole point would be to completely deregulate F1, to make it open to new entrants and to abolish the privileges established team think they are entitled. The revenue should be dstributed more fairly as well. At the moment, F1 is run like a closed shop, specifically to exclude new blood and to maintain sme vested interests.
I think that the requirements only stipulate " the ownership of intellectual properties" not the design and build itself. Dallara and Lola did build cars for teams at time. But they were exclusive for these teams. A team that outsource its engine isn't a constructor by any sretch of imagination. That's what makes Ferrari so exceptonal in F1 - like BRM was. The WCC is a misnomer.
3-car teams, so that the backmarkers have even less chances of scoring points and getting winnings? No, thank you. Spread the loot a bit more evenly, change the point system so that people care about that big fight in 15th place after the leaders run away.
Yes and no. I don;t think anyone is interested in the smaller teams these days. Last time, these smaller teams give debuts and nurture future stars. The same can't be said for today. Instead, they rely on pay drivers, who most of the time, can't even drive. I rather see 3 cars per team racing competitively. However, you have great points.
I remain interested in the smaller teams! The battle for 9th & 10th is way better than the domination at the front! And they do still give newbies a chance in a lot of cases. OK, to a degree, right now, they have to rely on pay drivers, but that's nothing new either. Anyway, an interesting counterpoint to the PF1 article. (I can't help thinking it's those clowns who he refers to as 'the para-sites.' ) Edited for brevity. Link to full story below. Cheers, Ian The Third Way? - Pitpass.com
There's nothing magical nor sacred about 107. Passing that low bar doesn't ensure that they're competitive. The question is whether its good for F1 or not. While I'm for the sport being open to new blood the current system allows minnows in the door it also allows no-hopers to stick around way too long. Traditionally having customer teams has permitted new blood in with a shot. Asking a new team to build its own chassis may set the bar too high technically and financially. Better to let them in with a realistic prospect of success which they can build on potentially becoming successful independents. See Tyrrell. BTW If we insist that teams make their own power units to be worthy are we saying that Lotus (the real one) was somehow second class? Under today's rules only an auto manufacturer can afford to develope and produce engines. It maybe that allowing for customer teams would negate the need for three car Super-Teams which would only increase the disparity between rich and poor. There's only a limited pool of sponsorship and if the big guys need more money to run three cars some of it at least will come at the minnow's expense. F1 needs shaking up if its to survive.
'Drastic' changes ahead for F1 in 2015 - Kaltenborn (possibly including 3-car teams) 'Drastic' changes ahead for F1 - Monisha Kaltenborn - Sauber | Sauber | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1
I'm ok with three car teams. Such a rule would allow us to see what some backfield drivers can do in more competitive cars.
If you look at F-1 history - 3 car teams have been around for a long time. i think the biggest reason they went away was cost... but that was up to the team. I think if you made it benificial to the team to put a 3rd car in it would be great. I also think the bigger issue is customer cars. As someone put it here - some of the greatest teams started out as customers ... Williams Mclaren Tyrrell... they all started or used customer cars at some point. Companys like Cooper March, Lola, BRM, Mclaren, Matra, Shadow all sold customer cars... what is the big deal? Most teams took the cars and modified them the way they thought... in Indy cars the rules dont let you do that now... but next year you can. If Bernie and FIA got toether and said here are a list of approved Chassis and engine suppliers and these cars are approved to race for x number of years ( 3) you coudl have a great grid.... will they win - probabbly not but it keps the field interesting. you need back markers to keep it exciting... its no fun to have all the top guys just string out with no back markers trying to keep up and getting in the way. 1990 was about as interesting season you could have - more chassis and engine combos than almost ever... if the FIA alowed it - you could see Ford, Chevrolet, Audi or VW, Alfa, Mazda etc.. all come in as a brand on a standard engine platform... Dallara, March, Lola, or who ever else out there can make chassis... 3 cars mandated per team - to me means more cost for the rich teams and closes out the small guys... eventually it will be Ferrari, Mercedes, Mclaren, Redbull... and that is it. 4 teams x 3 cars=12 car field so exciting!
Now that Bernie's no longer distracted by the German thing I suspect that we're in for more of his creative thinking.
