Saward has published this - it seems worthy of a new thread due to its clarity and probable accuracy The F1 financial structure explained (in four sentences) | joeblogsf1 I can't get the image to upload so could some else please do it
The formula for distribution of monies ensures that any team out of the top 10 can not survive for long.
I was under the impression that Bernie et al threw Marussia and others a small sack of money now and then just to keep them alive and the grid full. Apparently he doesn't think that's necessary anymore. Haas is no dummy but he is now indeed swimming with the sharks.
Also worth saying that Ferrari are particularly inefficient if they can't win every season with a $90m budget advantage over every other team!
Haas is at the foot of the mountain; I hope he understand that and that too much expectation is built around the first US team. There is a fine line between being brave and being foolhardy; time will tell where Haas fits.
The financial distribution above shows one thing very clearly,... a team must be in the top 10. If HAAS enters as team number 10... and the grid stays at 10,... he'll likely be in good shape. If either Caterham or Marussia survive (or are reincarnated),... and HAAS becomes team 11 or even 12... his finances are infinitely worse unless he can break into the top 10 quickly.
Given their performance before bankruptcies, I can't see how either team would pose much competition to Haas.
Yeah that structure seems ridiculous but hey, it's what they've negotiated. IMO it seems like McLaren and arguably even Williams should be paid a similar amount. I think a case could even be made for Mercedes given the team name and history, although obviously they are essentially a new team since Brawn. I can definitely see how Formula 1 would not be the same without Ferrari, but without McLaren I believe the magic would be similarly diminished.
Haas isn't a moron. He's got giant facilities and an already successful race team here in the states. I'm sure he's factoring a substantial budget. I don't know how true it is, but a man worth 3/4 of a billion dollars, probably knows how to budget especially when he's in control of the operation. "Haas also owns the Windshear wind tunnel located in the Charlotte, N.C. area, and has an estimated net worth of $740 million, according to a 2011 story in The Pacific Coast Business Times. The proposed F1 team would be located in Charlotte, and involves former Red Bull and Jaguar technical director Gunther Steiner"
He's certainly not a moron. But, I seriously doubt he has any idea of the size of the piranha's he's attempting to play with here. Steiner has actually won nothing. Jaguar? Fools. The Cans? OK, before they were any good. $740MM? Should last him about 3 years before he goes completely broke..... If he manages to score a point before folding I'll be (pleasantly) surprised. That's assuming he even makes the grid of course. I wish him well, but comparing a taxicab operation to these guys is foolish at best IMO. Cheers, Ian
My point was that he owns the Winshear, 100%. He leases it out to Indy, Nascar and everyone else. Haas CNC does a billion a year, Stewart Haas team itself is worth over 150 million. I'm sure he'll be fine.
I hope you're right. I really do. I truly wish him all the best - Would be great for the sport in the USA to have a "local" team doing something. His tunnel is apparently one of the best - Many stories have some F1 guys using it too. But, that remains a *long* way from an F1 operation...... Again, I'll be pleasantly surprised if he scores a point. Cheers, Ian
F1 lost Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Cooper, BRM, Lotus (the Chapman team), and Brabham teams and still survived. These teams won titles too. Apart from Ferrari, McLaren and Williams are the other successful teams that have a long history in F1. I believe that each era will bring its new teams. In the future, we will talk about the Red Bull era, because the soft drink team made such an impact in F1.
When there's only ~20 cars on the grid, all it takes is one wreck for the little guys to score a point or two. Or another Michelin incident. IMO if bankrupt Marussia and we're too broke to pay Kimi his paycheck Lotus can score points this season, I think Haas could easily land a handful of points. Like you though I am not expecting anything from them, but I am a little more optimistic given his racing success and business acumen.
I don't think it's really a question of "survival" regarding the payouts, it's more of what each manufacturer brings to the sport. F1 would survive losing Ferrari, but it would be with fewer fans. Hell, Indycar somehow still survives and I am unaware that they have any fans.
Regardless of the size of his own fortune, or the success of his enterprise, Haas will have to spend in the region of $350 millions per year for several years before he can play in the big league. That's about the amount Mateschitz spends on Red Bull at the moment, and it is a continued effort too. Of course Hass will not benefit much from the FOM money redistribution scheme for several years at least, so the initial funds have to be from outside investment and sponsorship, and not from his own pocket.
Any activity has its peaks and troughs; what was popular before doesn't necessarily stay the same, and tomorrow will bring new ideas too. It's the same for F1, maybe it has reached its peak, and would looose some followers if Ferrari was to pull out. Sometimes, it's not so bad if a sport has less supporters; only the die-hard come to watch it, whilst the others find new venues to spend their weekends.
He does have Ferrari partnership and we dont know what kind of deals they have on engines or parts. All I heard was Ferrari uses all Haas machines. Could be a back scratching scenario. Its all speculation and we really have no idea what the actual out of pocket cost per year is. They also have sponsorship that covers costs.
I am pretty sure Gene Haas did his sums alright. Compared with some small European outfits, he has a solid business to shoulder the F1 team and his NASCAR involvement must have grounded him thoroughly too. But F1 is like a snakes pit and it's increasingly difficult to start from scratch, which is the way Haas decided to get involved. He didn't try to buy an existing outfit, for example. I have no preconceived ideas about his chance of success, and I will really welcome a US team on the grid. F1 needs new blood.
