... Bernie's giving teams an extra engine ~ | FerrariChat

... Bernie's giving teams an extra engine ~

Discussion in 'F1' started by asjoseph, Dec 4, 2014.

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  1. asjoseph

    asjoseph Karting
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    #1 asjoseph, Dec 4, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
    ... have a look-see, if and when you find time:

    BBC Sport - F1 set for record 21-race season in 2015 as double points scrapped

    No two ways about it, FiA's new formula slowly beginning to unravel, this bewildering array of regs are so easy circumvented. Case in point, sporting regs specifically state, an extra engine is granted if a 21st Grand Prix is "scheduled." Even if Korea doesn't go down, even if it's cancelled, just so that it was "scheduled," teams still get an extra engine.

    For Honda and McLaren, a fifth engine would be a Godsend - asj.
     
  2. Neonzapper

    Neonzapper F1 Rookie

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    I suppose Red Bull protested starting from the pit lane.
     
  3. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    conspiracy theory that fits your wicked world, I'd think.
    The ones that know their engines well (e.g. Ferrari, Mercedes) might be the ones benefitting. They have a solid understanding and know how to push their gear so that it lasts 4 instead of 5 events. The ones that are stuck in the learning curve and have unexpected write-offs won't.
     
  4. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Man thats awfully generous of Bernie.
    Must be his Christmas spirit.
     
  5. asjoseph

    asjoseph Karting
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    ... classical Bernie Ecclestone, slicing and dicing bureaucracy, cutting through red tape. Everyone well knows, Korea is less than doubtful. FiA's four internal combustion engine rule far too ambitious, it's proven far easier shoehorning a 21st Grand Prix into the 2015 calendar a function of expedience, than having to protract negotiation, amending FiA's sporting regs a 5th engine. Yet once again, Ecclestone does circles around Todt; catches hapless FiA toothless and flatfooted - asj.
     
  6. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    According to the FIA, contrary to popular belief (that the teams can now use 5 engines for 2015 regardless of whether the Korean GP goes ahead or not), Korea has to be a confirmed race on the calender by the Australian GP in order for the 5th engine to be available!:

    (From: Fifth engine rests on Korean GP fate - Korean Grand Prix 2013 - Formula 1 - Eurosport Australia ) :

    "Formula 1 teams are unlikely to get a fifth engine in 2015 unless the Korean Grand Prix stays on the calendar for the start of the season, the FIA suggests.

    Article 28.4 a) of Formula 1's Sporting Regulations states that drivers are limited to four power units for the season.

    However, it adds: "This number will be increased to five if the number of Events in the Championship, as originally scheduled, exceeds 20."

    The use of the phrase 'originally scheduled' has been interpreted by some as meaning that if there are 21 races down provisionally, then even if one drops off then that is enough for teams to be given the extra engine.

    However, senior sources at the FIA insist that such an interpretation of the regulation is unlikely to stand.

    The scheduling of the race, which is pencilled in for April, means that its slot in the calendar will need to be finalised before the season begins in Australia.

    With a provisional 2015 F1 calendar having been published by the FIA in September, and a final version therefore needing to be sorted before the first race, it will be hard for anyone to argue that the Korean GP was 'originally scheduled' if it drops off. "
     
  7. asjoseph

    asjoseph Karting
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    ... clearly, Ecclestone's intent wasn't a supply response to effective demand for another Grand Prix. His intent, cutting through red tape to add an extra engine, a function of expedience.

    Impetus in doing so: fear teams can't do 20 races, on 4 engines. Effort required to petition aloof, shortsighted FiA to add a 5th engine extraneous, penciling in Korea sends a message to FiA, solve the problem, or face an awkward mid-season rule change, when teams start running out of engines.

    It was definitely there. Every one of us; we all saw it. We saw Bernie's schedule, for ourselves. Everybody saw a 21st Grand Prix. Team principals and team attorneys are now free to add a 5th engine, and to appeal to FiA if need be, that Korea was indeed on Bernie's official schedule -- asj.
     
  8. vracer

    vracer Formula 3

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    Gotta luv him - even if you hate him.
     
  9. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    Really?

    Here is the original scheduled provisional calender (From: Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website - Headlines - FIA confirms 20-race calendar for 2015 ) :

    The 2015 calendar in full:

    Race 1: 15/03 Australia
    Race 2: 29/03 Malaysia
    Race 3: 05/04 Bahrain
    Race 4: 19/04 China
    Race 5: 10/05 Spain
    Race 6:24/05 Monaco
    Race 7: 07/06 Canada
    Race 8: 21/06 Austria
    Race 9: 05/07 Britain
    Race 10: 19/07 Germany
    Race 11: 26/07 Hungary
    Race 12: 23/08 Belgium
    Race 13: 06/09 Italy
    Race 14: 20/09 Singapore
    Race 15: 27/09 Japan
    Race 16: 11/10 Russia
    Race 17: 25/10 USA
    Race 18: 01/11 Mexico
    Race 19: 15/11 Brazil
    Race 20: 29/11 Abu Dhabi

    Now I only count 20 races, not 21, and there's no mention of a Korean GP anywhere! - Not even as a possible addition to the season!


    As the FIA have stated, it wasn't on the provisional calender, therefore it cannot be claimed to have been originally scheduled!

    Bernie will now have to show that there is a genuine effort being made to make the Korean GP a reality (which, considering that the Korean GP announcement came as a complete surprise to the Koreans, is going to be a tall order!), right the way up to the Australian GP, and I can't see the Koreans wasting any money on a GP that they know is never going to happen which will make it harder for him!

    Bernie has tried to be clever to circumvent the rules and force the FIA to allow 5th engines, but his plan has a major flaw in it! - A rare error on Bernie's part!

    I also suspect that the FIA are going to be less than impressed with this blatant attempt to meddle with the technical side of their sport!
     
  10. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You expect the FIA to take a stand?

    What a quaint notion.
    ;)
     
  11. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Again, another brilliant move from Bernie. If he wasn't so busy making $$billions$$, he would be a great adjunct professor at a business school.
     
  12. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    I expect Jean Todt to put Ecclestone in his place for trying to manipulate the technical rules as I suspect he will be seriously unimpressed!
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Todt has been a huge disappointment so far.
     
  14. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    I think on this one he'll stand his ground as Bernie has over-stepped the mark by quite some margin.

    I also think that running F1 is a lot harder than people think it is, mainly due to all the different people/teams/companies etc., etc., that you have to try to appease at the same time.

    What might be suitable for a couple of teams may not be suitable for the rest, and visa-verse, and the problem is that they all employ a large legal team to ensure that they all get what they want.

    Frankly, I suspect the whole experience is a bit of a nightmare at times!

    Something else that seems to be easily forgotten is that Todt is not only responsible for the running of F1, he's responsible for every other FIA race series too!

    The whole job is the business equivalent of spinning plates and can't be easy!
     
  15. Sellnit

    Sellnit Formula Junior

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    It's in the FIA's best interest to just let this go, and quite honestly I would think they gave at least tacit approval of such a thought process. Though JT would never admit it publicly. Sly old foxes they are.
     
  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I think that his predecessors have poisoned the chalice. After Balestre and Mosley no one wants a strong FIA.
    J.T. has obliged.
     
  17. asjoseph

    asjoseph Karting
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  18. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    The German courts seem to corner him pretty well! - He ended up paying out $100Million to get rid of a case in which he was determined he was innocent!

    If he was truly slick, he would have got off without paying a penny!
     
  19. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Cost of doing business.
    I'd expect him to take it as a deduction. If he paid taxes.
     

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