Customer cars are a topic - Saving money not as much...i guess https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/05/15/customer-cars/ Autosport reort on this meeting Formula 1 Strategy Group opens door to customer cars By Ian Parkes Thursday, May 14th 2015, 22:55 GMT Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Spanish Grand Prix 2015 Formula 1 appears to have opened the door to the introduction of customer cars with plans for cost saving seemingly abandoned following Thursday's Strategy Group meeting, AUTOSPORT understands. Initially, a number of cost-cutting ideas were on the agenda, such as a ban on windtunnels and switching to CFD, saving $15-20million per annum. Hopes had also been raised of talks over a revised payment structure between the engine manufacturers and its customers, with the latter looking for savings. There was also the possibility of revisiting discussions of a more equitable share of the sport's revenues, particularly with the latest payments to teams coming to light. However, following the crucial meeting of the Strategy Group at Biggin Hill, the suggestion is those ideas were pushed aside, and instead the prospect of customer cars was again raised. Present at the meeting was the sport's commercial head Bernie Ecclestone, FIA president Jean Todt, and team principals from Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull, Williams and Force India. The understanding is the matter, for now, is to be reviewed by the four CCB (Constructors' Championship Bonus) teams - Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren, to assess costs and feasibility. Such a discussion will drive at the heart of the independence of a number of teams on the grid, and is likely to be fiercely debated in the coming weeks and months. FIFTH ENGINE REJECTED The Strategy Group, meanwhile, is believed to have rejected a proposal to allow teams to use five engines for this season, as revealed by AUTOSPORT last week. As per the current regulations, the engine allocation is to remain at four. Teams were allowed to use five last season following the introduction of the 1.6-litre V6 turbo-charged power unit, and given the rules, knew they had only four for this campaign onwards. However, a return to five had been on the agenda for some time, with a preliminary agreement put in place in Malaysia at the end of March, but it now appears four will remain the maximum allowed. The decision will hurt a team like Red Bull as it has already used six engines this season - with drivers Daniel Ricciardo and Daniil Kvyat both now on their fourth apiece - given the problems incurred with current supplier Renault. It means the drivers are to be hit with grid penalties sooner rather than later once either uses a fifth engine. Team principal Christian Horner stated to AUTOSPORT last week an additional engine would not have too much of an impact in the long run. "Whether it's five or eight engines, it doesn't make a difference to us," Horner said at the time. "It's inevitable we are going to have to take eight, up to nine engines this season." The FIA is expected to reveal more details from the Strategy Group meeting in a statement on Friday.
Refuelling to return to F1 in 2017 Motorsport.com | Racing News, Race Results - F1, NASCAR, IndyCar and more I know this will please a few on this forum. For me, it's another unnecessary gimmick added to the race, and a step backwards. F1 will look more like Indy racing, I suppose. I am surprised Bernie hasn't proposed to race on ovals yet.
The new proposals are really exciting. Mostly for all the rules/requirements that will hopefully eliminate. Refueling is excellent, but mostly because it will hopefully mean limits and flow restrictions can go - hopefully the elimination of the "lift and coast". Back to racing rather than conservation. Dare I hope that the ludicrous Duracell super expensive bolt-on for the PU can also be dumped. Also I believe for dry races, it's proposed that team will be able to chose which of the 4 tires they will use at each race.
Bring back ground effects and watch those cars fly!!! THAT WILL PUT FANS IN THE SEATS!!! All kidding aside, I do like the refueling aspect of racing, it helps to drive strategy. I know not everyone goes for it, but I'm ok with it.
I think this would be a great idea. The regulations are so restrictive that there are few opportunities for teams to take risks and use different strategies. Nearly every car, at least in the top 10 grid spots, winds up using the same tire strategy; option, option, prime. When Kimi goes option, prime, option it is some sort of a sensation. Why not let a team see if they can win by going soft /hard, or soft/soft/soft, or super soft/soft/medium, or hard/hard. One thing that makes anything boring or mundane is predictability. So, shake it up by opening up the tire choices.
Well, obviously anything will be better than status quo, but they have to be careful in making choices. Re-introducing refuelling, tampering with the tyre strategy looks like window dressing to me, and not really addressing the issues. The technical definition has to be reviewed and the distribution on moneys as well. Only that could guaranty the survival of the "lesser" teams and keep a full grid. Otherwise, the "strategy group" is just wallpapering over the cracks
According to pitpass; So, as per usual, seems they can't agree on anything meaningful. Someone really needs to step up and take control of this mess. It used to be Bernie, but it appears even he is now neutered by the current 'democracy'...... Cheers, Ian
With the decision not to add an additional engine to the annual allotment, the Renault powered cars have effectively conceded total and utter defeat. Not that there was much they could do about it. This effectively assures a two tier grid, with Merc and Ferrari powered cars at the front, Renault powered cars at the rear. Maybe since there will be no additional penalty once a car is starting at the back of the grid, Renault may be able to turn up the power and screw the detonations.
I hope they get a decent supplier for the fueling rigs. Remember the days when the fueling equipment randomly ruined races for years? I still wonder how much the manufacturer paid in bribes to FIA officials back then...
It's a start and I hope it's because they do finally realize things need to change. I'm okay with them getting the low-hanging fruit first. The "show" is easily fixed and I think they're working towards that. I know you see F1 differently as far as pit stops and all that, but I do like and prefer to see F1 as a team sport requiring expertise and performance at all levels of the team and I like the strategic implications that it brings. The money... that's another story. Where there's millions, there's greed, arrogance, and blindness... so unless they see that giving up some today gives them more later or at least for a longer period of time, then nothing's going to change.
Me too. More power, increased revs, more noise, better looking cars, refuelling, cars that are 5-6 seconds per lap quicker, choosing whatever compound you want to run, wider tires. WIN. WIN. WIN. It seems that they have taken notice of what the fans want, for once. More importantly, they obviously see that the current formula needs fixing...
I am not against accepting compromises, as long as it helps F1. But we had several changes in the past, including tyre strategy, refuelling, qualification formats, and they brought F1 to what it is now. Making more of a "dog and pony show" still won't help struggling teams to survive, nor guaranty the public interest in the long term. The solution is to ensure that 10 or 12 teams can compete with some degree of fairness. The bottom line is the money should be shared more equally among all the participants which ALL contribute to the spectacle. That doesn't seem to have been addressed.
This is what we need: more power, less weight, wider tires, even refuelling is welcome, more noise, etc. I'm sold on this. We want F1 to be punishing. I was appalled when one test driver (?) commented earlier this week that he thought his first F1 test was easier than he thought. Bloody hell, they should be intimidated...! They should feel the engine vibrate like mad and fear from it when pushing. I used to have this very sarcastic saying that 'Nakajima used to have a smoke when driving' because he looked (and was) so slow. Well, now they all seem to be doing that. Schummy used to push in certain parts of the race with a couple of eye opening 'quali' laps. Who does that now? I hope that this will become another great era, with traditional ideas, but new technology.
What happens when a set of supersofts lasts 5 laps, but they are 5 seconds fast a lap than say a medium? 10 pit stops? I like all the changes.
We are yet to see the details, but there was no mention that teams would get more sets of tires to use per weekend.
+1 watching a driver lose a race or championship because a pit guy screws up on a nozzle on wheel nut is plain wrong. If a tyre explodes on the track ala Mansell that is a different matter. Race results should materialise on the track, not at a bus stop. Gimmicks !
Rules change is always good IMO. All the talking and attempts from teams to properly implement/get around them is more entertaining than the improved spectacle the rules themselves are trying to address.
It will be interesting to see the reaction on here if all of these rule changes simply take us back to the processional races that we used to have to endure the last time we had similar rules in place!
