SF-15 reaches end of development

Sigh. Should have done this last year

 

Impo this always been a big problem with fred cars he loves understeer. Schumi was always about oversteer if the car will not turn you can't get the car to change direction and get steering input out and put the rear tires on the track flat . Vettal almost good enough to over come this but is its a big problem for kimi because he's just a average f1 Wheelman

 

I'm sorry, but I think this whole pull-rod versus push-rod debate is a blind alley.

There's *much* more to building a decent car than that. After all, it's only deflecting a torsion bar & damper - whether they're pulled or pushed is neither here nor there IMO.

Same as Merc's now legendary "split turbo" - It's a nice solution, but is not the reason they're blowing everyone's doors off.

IMESHO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Spot on Ian.

 

Any race car is only as good as it tires if you can't get them to stay within there operating temperature your done . Impo the rears once up to operating temp are easier to keep their because they're under load most of the time . Fronts are not under as much and have less mass to keep the temperature. If ferrari says that they are having problems believe it

 

What is the reason? What are they doing with an existing engine that they haven't really spent new tokens on that can consistently keep or increase the gap to the competition every single race? I'd like to know.

 

The many million $ question right there.....

Wouldn't we/they all!.....

FWIW, IMO, they've "simply" got far and away the best "package" right now. There's no doubt their PU is the class of the field - witness all the Merc powered cars towards the front. However, none of their customers can live with them either, and I honestly don't believe it's due to any "secrets" or shenanigans on their behalf - They've just got it right in the same way as the Scuderia when Michael was blowing everyone away.

Their time will pass. As has been said many times, it's all cyclical.

Cheers,
Ian

 

+1

 

You may be correct.

But, again, I don't see any reason why pull-rod is somehow "worse" than push-rod in terms of keeping the rubber working.

It's a tire. It doesn't know if it's being controlled via pushing or pulling!

Apparently, there are also some aero advantages with the pull rod setup, and getting weight as low as possible is always going to be a win.

I fail to see any reason why the tires would work better one way or the other. Get your geometry right and it (should?) be irrelevant.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Don't take this wrong but there a lot of thing we don't understand . Areo is a big part of f1 than weight but impo if you can't get the tires to work as the areo load is lost at slow speed front roll center is very important and if Allison has said this all we can get I believe it. Look at bright side ferrari thinks it knows what it needs to move forward.

 

I don't buy the pull rod is a major problem.

 

Personally what the car needs is more downforce front and rear, this should then allow the tyres into the right operating temp. Hopefully Hungary will be scorching.

 

Understatement of the thread right there!..... We're just sitting in the peanut gallery BS'ing - "We" don't understand very much at all.

Agreed that roll centers (both front & rear) are important to how the thing behaves, particularly at low speed. Maybe they've got it wrong, but again, there's nothing inherent about pull-rod that doesn't allow you to put the roll center where you want it.

One of the (supposed) advantages Ferrari have is that they're "light" on tires. It doesn't eat them up like some of the others. Sometimes this is good, other times they do seem to struggle (particularly Kimi) to keep them working well. Just another challenge to overcome - It's not easy!

Cheers,
Ian

 

The SF15 is a quick fix of a car that was a disaster like the F14 made by a newborn team of designers without big stars in it. I don't think that we should expect a lot from it. Honestly, it already has exceeded my expectations.

 

The Mercedes of the last two years are the most dominant F1 cars of all time.

 

+1 with very little weakness other than the odd fault of a mech nature. The car has the aero, the power and the balance for a driver to dominate the field lacking the synch the Mercedes offers.

 

Why have the pull rod suspensions not been more effective? Is it simply that the engineers in F1 have spent more time with push rod suspensions and therefore understand them more thoroughly?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I'm not implying anything, I'm asking a question. I often hear that pull rod suspensions have all these benefits and are theoretically better, but when teams choose it they often struggle with tuning the setup and I honestly don't understand why that's the case. I wondered if since engineers change teams all the time, and most F1 teams have relied upon push rod suspensions, it seems like there's a lot of development and shared knowledge about push rod systems, while fewer teams have pursued pull rod and the shorter period of development time could have had a tangible impact on the relative performance of suspension systems when comparing the two methods in a single season. Clearly, it has been very difficult for Ferrari to successfully implement.

If push rod is inherently better, despite theoretical disadvantages for weight location/distribution and aerodynamics, could you tell me why?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Is that you Ron!?

I gotta say, you do have the very best "Ronspeak" outside of, well, the man himself!

I certainly can't answer your question either, but I don't think it's due to a lack of knowledge or understanding. At the end of the day, it's a geometry exercise. Many variations have been tried; De Dion axles were popular back in the day. Colin had some success playing with supposedly superior anti-dive & anti-squat layouts. And so on.

I remain convinced that Ferrari's "woes" are not down to using pull-rod's.

Cheers,
Ian

 

I think it's just because of the too tight geometries for a pull road to work well at the front