Kimi vs. Vettel @ Spa | FerrariChat

Kimi vs. Vettel @ Spa

Discussion in 'F1' started by yellowducatista11, Aug 23, 2015.

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  1. yellowducatista11

    Aug 16, 2014
    89
    Meadow Lake, SK, CDN
    Full Name:
    Lee Douglas
    #1 yellowducatista11, Aug 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2015
    Kimi starts 16th finishes 7th. Vettel starts 8th, moves up to 3rd, and doesn't finish due to tire failure on lap 42. If he had pitted twice, like Kimi, he would have finished well behind Kimi.

    Now, Kimi haters, shut the **** UP!

    I've seen this all season long. Kimi starts way down the grid due to a circumstances beyond his control (read: a ****ty car during practice and qualifying) and makes up many places. Perhaps more than Vettel all season. That would be an interesting stat. How many places have each of the drivers made up all season from their starting positions to where they ultimately finish the race excluding mechanical/tire failures?

    I think Maurizio Arrivebene knows exactly what he's doing. You don't think he had a lot of choices for a driver in 2016? Of course he did. We all know almost every driver dreams of driving for Ferrari. Is Kimi better. Yes. His points tally this season is NOT reflective of his driving. It's reflective of his car. Period.

    Did you see Verstappen's attempt to pass Kimi at the end? Give me a break.
     
  2. 308luver

    308luver Formula Junior

    May 4, 2006
    707
    What?

    So a guy not pushing his tires for a 1 stopper would have been slower had he DID do a two stopper with a 1 stop pace, than a guy who pushed but ran a two stopper... OMG!

    And if you qualify first you can only lose positions... If you start last you can only gain. Positions gained in a season is a meaningless stat, especially with the descrepicy between top teams and bottom teams.

    You need to study how racing actually works.
     
  3. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    I understand what you're getting at, and agree to a degree.

    However, if we remove Merc, totally dominant & out of everyone's reach, and Marussia (no money) and McSplutter (no power!) the remaining 14 cars were covered by just a shade over a second in qualy! Around the longest lap in F1 of course at around 1:50!

    That's seven different manufacturers, and three different PU's all of whom could really have been anywhere in the mix.

    I for one continue to find that staggering!

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,300
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Kimi was also on an old engine, estimated to be 4-5 tenths per lap slower
     
  5. yellowducatista11

    Aug 16, 2014
    89
    Meadow Lake, SK, CDN
    Full Name:
    Lee Douglas
    You need to study English: "had he did do a two stopper"? Really? Where did you come up with that? In fact your whole first paragraph is so convoluted it barely makes sense, but you actually make my point.

    YES, the guy (being Vettel) running the one stop race WAS SLOWER than a guy (Kimi) running a two stop race. Subtract 22 seconds from Vettel in the last laps (for a pit stop), and you put him behind Kimi. Period. Even though Kimi started 16th on the grid.

    Vettel should have stopped and changed tires so he could finish the race, which might have got him some points (unlikely given how far back 10th was), if he had done it soon enough, but instead, he tried to make the tire last which was a desperate attempt to make up for the fact that he simply didn't have the pace to make a second stop. I think you need to study how racing actually works. You need to finish the race to get points. Spa is a two stop race. How many others did you see running a one stop race? Are you going to try to tell me that Vettel had the pace to stop twice? Hahahahahaha No, he didn't.

    Secondly, how many times has Vettel qualified in Pole Position this year??? Do you actually watch these races? The bottom line is, if you don't qualify on pole you are expected to make up as many places as possible to get to the lead. It's not a useless stat. The amount of grid positions you make up is crucial to scoring points. Maybe you need to do some more studying about how you finish a two stop race, and how you maximize the amount of points you get for the team, based on where you qualify.
     
  6. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    13,609
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    Actually i don't agree, i was rooting for Kimi as he is my favourite driver but, if SEb had stoped between 15 from 10 laps of the end he would have finished 3º easily, he has some 20 secs over Romain, but with new tires he could have turned 2 sec a lap quicker so he would have caught and passed him.....KImi drove ok but far from brilliant, unless he was having trouble with his car.
     
  7. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Oh, really?

    For KR, it appears as if you sign your extension, and...

    Get passed by Kvyat in the last two laps like you're standing still? Doesn't challenge Massa much at all? Finishes behind a Force India? TWO places? Didn't seem to have much urgency from my take on it.

    Notwithstanding his mechanical in Q2, the car is a Q3 car all day long. Therefore, even though he started well down in the grid, he ought to have been able to pick the next 4-5 positions off relatively steadily. Arguably, he should be challenging and passing even more. He didn't do much. Several cars ahead also had failures that would have pushed him farther back had they not, meaning his improvement wasn't as great as it appeared (VET and RIC both out with mechanicals).

    IMO, KR was the wrong choice before, and he's the wrong choice now, but I'm not making the calls at the Scuderia. His performance ought to go down as pretty lackluster. He gets paid a lot of money to deliver results. Too bad the Scuderia won't be working towards the 2016 season with a new driver. The sooner that could have happened, maybe the better.

    CW
     
  8. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2015
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    Upstate, NY
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    Christian
    Vettel is a better driver than Kimi. Kimi is past his prime....bad luck for Vettel.
     
  9. Mulehead

    Mulehead Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2012
    755
    Kimi great race his pace Is fine I don't why ferrari didn't sign him to a four year deal ;)
     
  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Bas
    Som facts for you here :

    Kvyat and Verstappen where both on fresh soft tires
    Barring the Mercedes and the mclaren/marussia, the field was within a second of each other (!!)
    Kimi had an old engine that was half a second slower
    Kimi started 18th because of mechanical failure, the force India (NOT a slow car) in 4th.

    Those are absolute facts, do with them as you please.
     
  11. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    38,744
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    Andrew

    Rude and caustic posting is not permitted. As per the announced standards (link) for enforcement of respectful conduct, a 1-month ban has been applied.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  12. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,874
    Sure, plenty of reasons exist to explain the finishing order away. For and against.

    And, I don't particularly dislike the guy (although, I'm not sure how serious of a guy I think he is). I think he's certainly talented enough to be on the grid, though. But, in ways, you make my argument for me, too. If so much is equipment dependent, then the driver is less important? That's facetious, of course, but the fact is that winners find a way to win in lesser equipment all the time. I'm not saying the Scuderia can be on the top of the podium regularly right now, but I don't think KR has put himself in the position to capitalize much if the Mercs hiccup. At best he's in the background if and when the Mercs, VET, the Williams, RIC and now others fail to finish. Others have gained ground on him. And, for a team that's trying to narrow the gap, I think some are left wondering how hard the guy is trying and what his contributions are. But, as I said, I'm not making the decisions at the Scuderia, and I guess they figure he's got what they need for next season (maybe the change in the line-up would be too "disruptive"?).

    Under the right conditions he may be super-fast. But, if he's to have much of a chance at being anything more than a mid-packer, he's going to have to find a way to be faster than he has been.

    I just want the Scuderia to make the right decisions. It's debatable until the cows come home whether they've made the best one.

    CW
     
  13. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Apr 23, 2014
    3,534
    I know you are banned now and can't respond but what flawed logic is that? When you run a one stopper you lap much slower due to tire deg - you can't just subtract a pit stop from vettels time at the end of the race and say if he pitted he would be 20 seconds behind lol? If he pitted it would've been 15 laps earlier and he would've had the benefit of lapping 2-3 seconds quicker per lap on the fresh tyres.

    Fact is Kimi didn't make any brave overtakin attempts all race and merely held station. The younger guys and grosjean were the ones ripping it up.

    Fact is alonso ruined Kimi last year. Vettel is ruining him this year. He's past it. You are blind mate. Granted he's having some bad luck but Vettel still does bette than him anyway. As for alonso... Well he comprehensively beat Kimi in every race bar one, tripled his points tally and outwualified him at basically every track
     
  14. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 23, 2003
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    Hooray....I actually agree with you!! lol
     
  15. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 20, 2004
    6,629
    Look at that... The enemy of my enemy is my friend....and peace is restored across the land.:)
     
  16. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 23, 2003
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    Let's not go overboard! :)
     
  17. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    The love boat.nananananaa....
     
  18. Neonzapper

    Neonzapper F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2008
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    Mykol
    Ever since Ferrari put pressure on Kimi, he's stepped up. Ferrari gremlins have plagued him beyond his control. At least he handles a tense situation as calmly as possible- even apologizes. Perhaps Seb needs to control himself a bit more.
     
  19. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
    8,468
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    DJ
    Uh, no.
     
  20. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    Its the performance of the Merc that is staggering!
     
  21. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
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    Ian Anderson
    Well, yeah, that too!

    And while their PU is obviously the class of the field the others guys using it aren't particularly close; Sure, it helps, but they've obviously built a truly world beating car as well.

    Doff the cap and do a better job! ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  22. pingi3

    pingi3 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 27, 2009
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    Quack
    You guys need to look at the big picture. The cars are a HUGE factor in this. Webber did nothing in a "jag" but won races in a Redbull ( post Jag ). Button wins championship in a Brawn but nothing since then. So think folks. Put Hamilton in a Force India. Would he do better than Hulk? Maybe but he would not be winning races on a regular basis. So Kimi is a in a car that suites Vettel better me thinks. Well my GF's showed up for dinner so I must depart. I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.
     
  23. tesla

    tesla Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2013
    453
    Hamilton without his silver bullet is a nobody. I honestly don't know how he manages to get in front of Nico Rosberg. There is no way he would beat the Hulk.
    I'm not sure about Kimi any more. I was a huge fan, but I'm afraid he is over the hill.
    All I know is that Vettel would be fighting for this year's championship if he had at least 80% of Mercedes power.
     
  24. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 21, 2012
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    Billy
    It's easier to move up positions when you are all the way the back on the grid. You are passing slower cars and drivers. Once you get closer to the faster cars and drivers on the grid it becomes more difficult. Do you really believe that if Vettel started in the back of the grid he wouldn't achieve that or better? He proved himself in Montreal.
     
  25. cig1

    cig1 F1 Rookie

    May 3, 2005
    2,914
    In front of you
    +1000

    ;)

    G
     

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