R.I.P. Justin Wilson (title edit)

Terrible accident. I hope he pulls through.

 

Sad news, just hope everything will turn up for the better as with Felipe...

 

Just saw it on Motorsport.com. Really sad news. I hope everything will go better for him and a speedy recovery.

He hit debris with more than 300km/h...

 

Another incident underlining the need for closed cockpits, providing adequate protection for the drivers.

When will they ever learn?

 

Closed cockpits will cause at least as many problems as they solve.

 

Such as ??

Closed cockpits have been made mandatory in LMP, where nobody has found yet that they have caused many problems.

 

If an open wheel car flips over, it likes to rest on the exact area that would now be closed off. Add in a fire, and what do you do?

 

Do you think the rule makers in endurance haven't thought of that when they made closed cockipts mandatory in LMP?

The risk of fire in F1 are very low, nowadays, and rescuing a driver without injury from an upturned car would certainly be better that dragging out of the wreckage one who has serious cranial injury.

Just my opinion...

There has always been people against safety improvements in F1; join the queue ...

 

All the closed canopies FIA have tested launched tires a great distance. You really don't want bystanders taking part in high velocity debris fields.

 

+1

Just one of the "problems" IMO.

I mentioned this in the other thread (in other racing) - I was searching for news this am and came across this;

Most sensible idea I've read in a long time! OK, won't work on road courses so much, but I think I can guarantee some bad, unforeseen, stuff will happen if they cover the cockpits, be it in F1 or Indycar.

Agreed that fires are pretty unusual these days, but I can guarantee something will happen that will have all the Monday morning QB's screaming "what were they thinking!?".....

Plus, and again I'm not trying to be harsh here, the very essence of F1 (and Indycar) is sticky out wheels & open cockpits. Take that away (as they've almost done with the silly "aero-kits" in Indy), and the very soul of the sport is removed. May as well watch M&M's being flushed down the toilet IMO.

Godspeed Justin,
Ian

 

A thick polycarbonate cockpit surround that stops at the height of the helmet would give the driver a lot more protection without ruining the look of the cars.

Visibility in rain could be a bit of a bother, though...
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Nope.

 

Not a bad idea at all......

They can't see **** in the rain anyway!

Part of the game; What's the difference between rain on the visor and rain on a windshield? [OK, before the optometrists jump in, I get the focus distance issue, but the principle remains.]

Having said that, they already sit pretty low and F1 at least (I assume Indy too?) mandates pretty extensive protection around the head/neck area.

I'll just note again that "motor racing is dangerous", and **** sometimes happens.

Ian

 

Visors have tear offs.

I suppose a windscreen could have high pressure cleaning jets or so.

 

Think what a F1 could be if it was designed as single-seater LMP cars, with a substantial roll cage around the driver (including ahead of him), and one exit panel on each side (no hinged doors, of course).

Of course it would necessitate some chassis redesign to accommodate entry and exit, and the cockpit wouldn't have to be fully closed, allowing for ventilation, etc...

Surely that wouldn't be too difficult to achieve with the brain power most constructor can now harvest among their technical team, no?

I think that doing nothing isn't an option.

Remember, they even used to say that guardrails and mandatory seat belts were for sissies afraid of dying ...

 

Lots of discussion going on in the Indy Car Thread.

 

True, but not to clear rain - They'd need an almost infinite supply!

The WEC guys (among others) do indeed put tear-offs on the windscreen, but not to get rid of water.

I don't think water would be the problem per-se; Tear-offs (be they on the visor or the 'shield) are to get rid of bugs, oil, and the like - Not get rid of water.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Hope Wilson gets better soon. Not sure why this has to keep happening to drivers I really like.

 

Been following this; incident looked horrifying. The distance the cone travels after hitting him in the head underlines how much energy there was - it goes hundreds of feet in the air. I hope Justin pulls through.

There is a poll on closed cockpits after the incident on racer.com - 60% still say "no". I'm in the "no" category and I will also be racing open cockpit soon and have already been training in them for a while now. I know the risks.

On the side discussion: Tear-offs are actually worse in the rain (in my experience) because the pressure pushes the water between the tear offs and the visor and makes it even more difficult to see. I take them off all together in rain and use a rain-repellent on the visor.

Also, not much mention, understandably, of Sage Karam. I think he might have broken a foot or both or an ankle. He looked like he was in some real pain when he got out. The safety crew member was holding his hand and trying to comfort him. Front of his car was smashed to the suspension.

Ovals are the scariest tracks to me personally - that wall is trying to hurt you all the time; escaping the carnage is very difficult at those speeds. I love racing and I love open wheel, but I have really no attraction to ovals personally.

 

Challenging traditions is not without its pitfalls.

People should remember that open cockpits and open wheels date from the begining of the motor car, when achieving 60mph was an achievment. Now cars race at 250mph+.

Huge progress have been achieved since, in all areas, but it seems that for some stricking to traditions is essential, even if it flies in the face of logic.

It's a bit like the polemics about boxing, or bull fights, isn't it? Never ending ...

I would never have raced in an open car or in an open wheel category; that was my choice.

 

...and I respect that choice. There are also open wheel/cockpit guys that refuse to drive ovals. The former is an acceptable risk to them, but the former plus latter is not.

It's not about tradition for me to give you my perspective, it's simply about the sensation which can't be replicated behind a windshield. Same goes for for the wheels being open. Yes, one can get launched (most open wheel racers have been launched at some point) but that risk also creates a different kind of racing than in cars with fenders which can be rubbed.

...and it is very much like boxing and bullfighting I would say yes. I'm also a big boxing fan.

: )

 

Here's one for you William also. Dodging a tire at 120mph!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu25zY50Y7w

There's something a bit "off" about all racers IMHO ; )

 

I respect your choice too, believe me. You give your perspective as a racer, and I can understand your case. I gave mine as an observer.
I am not just a killjoy who wishes to ban anything other people enjoy.

But the repetition of some accidents calls for some rethinking in high places, I thnik.

Without banning open cockpits and open wheel racing, maybe they should be kept for the lower categories, but not Indy, or F1. Just maybe...

 

I hear you - it comes from a good place with you even if we don't agree. There are a lot of people where it comes from a place of judgement because they simply know better.

I honestly thought we would see another death or serious injury from the crazy flips we are seeing this year in Indy. That's how Wheldon went of course. The exploding CF body pieces are also a concern and injured a fan as I believe someone already pointed out.

Then there is Hinchcliffe earlier this year into the wall at 200+. From my understanding, if it weren't for the quick actions of the safety team, he would have bled to death in the car. He had the suspension lodged in his leg and pelvis. Just gruesome stuff.

You contrast that with F1 this year and the accidents have been nowhere near as serious (knock on wood). A big part of it is the ovals IMHO. Then again Franchitti's career ended on a road course, so what do I know...