Kimi's form - Back Issues? | FerrariChat

Kimi's form - Back Issues?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Remy Zero, Nov 16, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,319
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    Is Kimi's bad form, and lack of speed due to the back surgery he underwent, at the end of 2013 season? If we look back, at his form..

    2001 - 2006
    Fast, but let down my Mclaren's reliability.

    2007
    He showed massive improvement from the 2006 season. Some might argue he got lucky, but he did have some genuine pace, and eventually nicked the title.

    2008
    He was fast from the start of the season, right till Magny Cours, when his exhaust flew off, so did his speed. Played 2nd fiddle to Massa from then on.

    2009
    Again, he played 2nd fiddle to Massa, right till Hungary. Mysteriously, after Massa's accident, he started to show true speed, winning Spa impressively, considering how crap the car was that year. It was no co-incidence that since Massa's accident, the team probably decided to focus, and listen to his feedback, and he was fast again. Too late, as Ferrari paid him off for the following season.

    Lotus years
    Came back, seemed hungry, and had multiple wins, not bad considering the team would eventually almost fold, but thanks to Loldonado, they are still around. He had really great speed, entertaining, throughout. Until he sat out the last 1-3 races for a back surgery. Downhill from there.

    2nd spell at Ferrari
    Either the Kimi-Ferrari combo just doesn't work, or it's really his back surgery contributed to his drop in speed. I mean, there's no way someone can win a few races in the current season, only to be whipped by his teammate the next season.

    Conclusion
    I've read somewhere that Jackie Stewart did mention that driver need a good feel in their back and buttocks, to read and understand the car better.

    What's your thoughts on this?
     
  2. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2006
    4,810
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Peter Singhof
    Difficult to say from the outside, all we could say would be speculations at best. I think only the doctors who did the surgery know what they did exactly and how this could affect something.
    But I never heard Raikkonen mentioning this as an excuse...Although this would be stupid to say so because it would be basically admitting incapacity for work.
     
  3. FastLapp

    FastLapp F1 Rookie

    Mar 18, 2004
    2,962
    Rhode Island
    Full Name:
    James
    Could be a contributing factor - who knows. More likely combination of age and his heavy partying days finally catching up to him.
     
  4. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2014
    1,324
    Durango, CO
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    1) At Macca the car failed of finish 40% of the time. Otherwise, he should have won 1 to 2 WDCs.

    2) The second stint at Ferrari was dominated by a car built to Alonso's peculiar style.

    3) Kimi is not inclined to complain.
     
  5. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,533
    Vegas baby
    I personally think Kimi has just lost a bit over time. It happens to the best of them so why not him?
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    It's tough to say.

    Never heard him complain about it, but Kimi isn't really one for excuses. I don't think he suddenly lost talent. Has he lost a little something, akin to Schumacher at Mercedes? I think so.

    That said, I think he is able to win races still, he has shown very good speed compared to Vettel at several races. I don't think the 'will' is really there, with the Merc being so fast. Way before Ferrari, and probably Lotus, I do know he said something among the lines of the only reason he wants to race, is because he wants to win. He doesn't see the point of driving around for scraps (obviously he is intelligent enough that every point counts, so in a title season he knows better than that!).

    If Ferrari has a car capable of beating the Mercedes next year, I think we'll see a changed Kimi. I think Vettel will edge him out in the end, though.
     
  7. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    13,609
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    I really think Kimi somehow lost it, even if he was the best driver in the field in 2007 (and for some margin) he wasn't as fast as he had been in previous years, to me kimi's best was 2005 and 2006....2008, he had a lot of misfortune and some say Shumy was a bad influence, switching tje team focus to Felipe......one thing i know, 2014 and 2015 for sure aren't even near what he is or was capable of. Alonso is very good, Seb is even better, but at his peak i would take Kimi over them both without thinking twice.
     
  8. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Kimi me no like PR duties, can be as quick as the best drivers in F1 at times, seemingly unlucky of late with reliability issues, but one of the luckiest drivers in F1 in being able to get a wallet the size of an elephant, for doing something a lot would do for free.

    I like him but maybe over time, he lost his edge, the young guns seem to have more of a fiercer desire to win.
     
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    +1
     
  10. Jana

    Jana F1 Veteran

    Mar 4, 2015
    9,872
    No one can really say if his back is affecting his performance except Kimi, and like someone else mentioned, he's not exactly prone to complaining (which is why I really like him). I have an inoperable back condition that requires constant therapy to keep me working and I can definitely say it affects my ability to ride motorcross, waverunners, etc. Those are more physical movement, but F1 is a finesse activity, so if anything is not 100%, I can see where it might reduce performance.
     
  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    From what we know of Kimi, he would probably answer: "Jättäkää minut rauhaan, tiedän tulee tehdä"
    ("Just leave me alone, I know what I am doing")

    Rgds
     
  12. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    I tend to think that this could be one of the biggest issues and then the car design just does not suit his style. I hope the new 2016 car is to his liking.
     
  13. RallyeChris

    RallyeChris Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2012
    553
    Northport, NY
    Full Name:
    S.C.Conigliaro
    As stated earlier, Kimi requires motivation. The driving motivator is race wins. When he can't contend for a win, either due to the car's performance or his own lack of interest, he doesn't give 100%. I don't think this is the right way to go about driving at this level, but it is who he is. At Brazil, he performed well in Q. Finally got a little luck his way with Bottas' penalty. Was solidly in P4 the whole race, out-ran Bottas by a long shot, but nobody to attack or defend. He was probably bored to death.

    Kimi's return to F1 with Lotus was awesome. He was motivated to prove he still had the skills, and the Lotus wasn't a bad car. Allison surely helped him feel confident. I have high hopes for Kimi and the rest of the Scuderia next year. I just hope I don't feel disappointed after the first 3 races.
     
  14. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,767
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Almost no athlete in any sport can maintain their best form as they age. Could simply be father time. Really hard to speculate, some guys age differently than others, various contributing factors, etc.

    All I know is that he is still one of the fastest guys out there and if the cars get more mechanical grip, then watch out because that will heavily favor drivers like Kimi.
     
  15. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    2,864
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Billy
    I think Kimi is a great driver but he has a bad luck.
     
  16. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,319
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    Interesting points. But remember...he went from winning in 2012-2013 do nothing from 2014 till now. Coincidentally just after his back surgery.

    Michael's form dropped at Merc, but it was various factors, age, tyres, lack of testing, and also he was away from the sport for a couple of years,
     
  17. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    39,592
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David

    This sums it up well.
    When he was a young lion he was my favorite driver.
    No more.
    IMO now that the ink is dry on his contract the motivation dried up too.
     
  18. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    I still believe Kimi has the speed but his performance fluctuates way too much from race to race which cannot always be blamed on the car. Vettel gives great feedback, as does Kimi, but I think Vettel actually knows what adjustments need to be made while Kimi does not or just does not care.

    Frankly I am surprised Ferrari rehired him and Kimi is laughing all the way to the bank even with an expired "Use by" date. What good is Ferrari's driver program if they train and pay them just to lose them to a team who will actually let them race!

    Time for my F1 med's.
     
  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    DC disagrees ;).

    First time they where teammates, at a test at Silverstone, DC was in the car doing laps. Kimi came during the late morning, got in the car, blitzed everyone (including DC's) laptime, drove back into the pit, said what needed changing and left for an hour until everything was done. Got back in, went even faster. Said he was pretty damn good at feedback too....using as little words as possible!
     
  20. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    1) That was then though and the times and chassis development have changed. I like Kimi so in no way am I intentionally bashing him or his skills.

    2) Also it is quite possible that Vettel is better as was his mentor Schumacher.

    The fact still remains that Vettel has 3 wins this season while Kimi is lucky to finish in the points.
     
  21. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Fair point, and I know you weren't bashing him :).

    Times and chassis development has changed, but I the drivers still give their feedback in much the same way...

    on 2) you can be absolutely right. I remember reading at his time at Toro Rosso (before his win) how dedicated he was to understand the car and everything, and spend a lot more time just learning and learning and learning, than other drivers. IIRC Peter Sauber was similarly impressed with his dedication.

    Vettel really is a lot like his idol...I think we'll see him for a long time at Ferrari :).
     
  22. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    You're right on this, no doubt: his results have been meagre compared to Vettel, to say the least.
    About development, I still think that his inputs are probably the main reason why Ferrari is paying him what they are paying. Remember that Lotus? the only period when the car was able to win Grand Prix was when Kimi was behind the wheel; Kimi gone, the competitivity of the car was gone also. Even with the Merc engine.

    Rgds
     
  23. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    I want them both to win races and help secure another WCC for Ferrari before Kimi retires....again. They seem to get along, unlike the Mac drivers, and work well together which I believe is very important on many levels. I guess only time will tell but thankfully they are teammates again for 2016 and they might just put a good spanking on the rest of the field.

    Yes Kimi was magical in the Lotus.
     
  24. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    Well, I sure hope they will put some sparkle into the 2016 season, because the 2015 one was "slightly boring" as far as suspense goes. Nico Rosberg was disciplined enough to win races only after Lewis has already been crowned...I sure hope 2016 will be more disputed!

    Rgds
     
  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    Kimi had some rotten luck during qualifs, and his grid position has often influenced his final position.

    Kimi isn't a great qualifier anyway, but some tactic errors in qualifs have completely destroyed his weekend. KImi sometimes even questioned why his team wouldn't let him go out to improve his time, only to find himself "bumped off" at the end of Q1. Saving tyres was once invoked!

    I think Kimi cope quite well in spite of that.
     

Share This Page