End of the Red Bull engine saga scheduled for tomorrow? | FerrariChat

End of the Red Bull engine saga scheduled for tomorrow?

Discussion in 'F1' started by nerofer, Dec 3, 2015.

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  1. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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  2. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    Wow, not too much mystery there!
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's a pity: I wanted them out.
     
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    #4 375+, Dec 4, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
    When you're not a contender on the race track you need to resort to other means to keep your name in the news. I wonder if much of this drama wasn't just PR BS meant to generate buzz/intrigue where very little existed? Not much to discuss about their performance this season.
     
  5. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Red Bull to be powered by a Watch Company.. this is interesting. Techniques D'Avant Garde is not the same company any more... that owned Heure... so Red Bull powered by TAG Heure... interesting! still a Renault in the end. TAG is putting a lot of reputation on the line for not much reward.... Hope Renault does some hard work over the winter...
     
  6. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Yep Tom, still a Renault in the end BUT before Marko's summer stupid outburst, they had a factory badged engine for free; now Renault had vetoed having their name ever associted with Red Bull anymore, PLUS they charge Red Bull € 30 millions a year for the engine...

    That's a 30 millions Euro slice of crow, Dr Marko...next time, put your parachute on BEFORE jumping out of the plane.

    Rgds
     
  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Toro Rosso officially with Ferrari engines, too.

    Verstappen has said he wants to double his points next year and try and get a podium.

    At least they'll have decent company cars!
     
  8. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I also dont get why Fiat does not make Ferrari badge the TORRO ROSSO engines are either Maserati or Alfa Romeo... Marketing, Marketing.....
     
  9. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +1

    There's good reasons he's affectionately known as 'crazy Helmut' round here! ;)

    I'd like to hear what Mr M truly thinks of the whole mess.... 30MM Euros isn't pocket change even to him.

    Any idea what The Baby Cans are paying Ferrari next year?

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  10. sindo308qv

    sindo308qv F1 Rookie

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    Verstappen at Ferrari in 2017? Lets see how he does next year.
     
  11. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't claim to be a marketing expert, especially in the "luxury brand space" but I fail to see much sense in this beyond a face-saving move for RBR ex-Renault, and TAG ex-McLaren.
     
  12. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    Perhaps it's because they know that it's a pointless exercise! - Just as Red Bull's re-badging of the Renault engines is a pointless exercise.

    It wouldn't matter what badge the Torro Rosso engine carried, everyone who follows F1 to any degree at all would know it's a Ferrari engine and not a Maserati or Alfa Romeo engine - Just as everyone will know that next years Red Bull engine is a Renault engine and not a TAG engine.

    At least Ferrari give the fans credit for seeing through the bull:censored:t!

    "Ah! - But Ferrari build engines for Maserati road cars which carry Maserati badges!" you might say, but in the case of the V8 engines, whilst they're from the same engine "family", they're not the exact same engine as Ferrari use with a different badge on them, there are several differences that make them specific to Maserati.

    And when it comes to the Maserati V6 engines, as used in the Ghibli (the petrol version - the diesels are made by a FIAT subsidiary company ), Ferrari only assemble the engines for Maserati, the parts are made by sub contract companies to Ferrari specifications.

    Added to that, most Maserati owners are quick to point out that the engine in their car was actually built by Ferrari and not Maserati despite the Maserati badge on it!
     
  13. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Maserati are very good cars actually, and a very good precursor to full fat Ferrari ownership, I've had rather a lot over the years and you can at least park them where I can never leave my ferraris
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari rebadged its engines before.

    It's not a pointless exercise for the sponsor; it has its name associated with the team!

    Red Bull-TAG, or McLaren-TAG, etc...
     
  15. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    Yeah - Because then everyone believes the engine is built by TAG!

    Suddenly everyone wants a TAG watch because the Renault engine has a "TAG" badge pop riveted over the Renault badge? - P-leeeaaassse! Get real!

    I seriously doubt anyone has suddenly developed an irresistible urge to buy a TAG watch because an F1 team has a "TAG" badge on it!

    As for Ferrari re-badging their F1 engines in the past, they did it because other team's sponsors were big enough suckers to pay Ferrari to do it, not because Ferrari really wanted to promote Acer or Petronas or pretend that those companies were the engine manufacturer.

    I doubt Maserati or Alfa Romeo are going to pay Ferrari any money to put their badge on the engine, and nobody is going to buy into the engines being a Maserati or Alfa Romeo engine so what's the point?

    Would people suddenly all want an Alfa Romeo or Maserati because a mid field F1 team has slapped their badge on their Ferrari engine? - I seriously doubt it!
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You are so argumentative, aren't you?

    If a car carries the name of the sponsor, that name appears in the result - for ever.

    The championships won by McLaren-TAG allowed the name TAG in the books.

    But you wouldn't see a title won by "McLaren-Porsche sponsored by TAG", would you?

    Why do you think Colin Chapman had to re-baptise his cars JOHN PLAYERS SPECIALs? So that the name of the sponsor was prominent in the results.

    Duuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
     
  17. Lucky Jones

    Lucky Jones Karting

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    As an added bonus, every time the car is on screen or seen on track, it's advertising for the engine "brand" and it'll make an impression on viewers.

    Exposure.
     
  18. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I agree that having an Alfa or Maserati braned engine will not automatically make people run out and buy one... but for Alfa who is re branding its self to compete with BMW and Mercedes - this would be a great "showcase" ... people will see Alfa in F-1 and tie it in ... it WILL make people who cant afford a Mclaren or Ferrari - and who dont Id with Mercedes - think again. Same for Maserati.

    And for Ferrari - its all about making the brand stick out ... in my opinion its better to have one Ferrari and many other italian brands vs. the factory team and then its engines in lesser teams.

    Torro Rosso Maserati sounds better to me!

    As For TAG - its good advertizing... and a way for Renault and RB to mend fences... silly but its what Bernie came up with.
     
  19. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +1 on the exposure. Do you believe Bernie brokered the whole deal?

    It's sure getting expensive for them; Infiniti now gone too;

    Just another $70MM out the door...... :eek:

    From Autosport of course.
    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  20. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

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    Might have been good before this year, but FIAT has spun off Ferrari as it's own company,
     
  21. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm happy that RB sticks with F1. Same goes for Minardi.

    And with Haas coming, we will end up even with a bigger field. All the better for the sport.
     
  22. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    +1

    They may be "tail end Charlie's", but as often noted, at least they're out there trying!

    Really don't get the "hate" for the Cans; IMO both teams have been very good for F1 over the past years.

    Always makes me a little sad when we lose a team, no matter who it may be.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  23. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    100%
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mateschitz and his unlimited budgets has had a negative effect in F1?

    The trio Mateschitz, Marko and Horner have nothing but contempt for the other teams.

    It's pity that Renault and Ferrari accepted to sell them engines to continue.

    They missed a good opporunity to put Red Bull out of business in F1.
     
  25. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    #25 nerofer, Dec 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
    Seen from France, it was clear right from the beginning of the supposed crisis (I say "supposed" because question is, was there really a crisis? See the enclosed link to "Motorsport Magazine which is interesting) that Cyril Abiteboul at Renault Sport was leaving a door "half open" to a renogociated deal with Red Bull for 2016 engines, even if Carlos Goshn was adamant that "Renault's name will never, ever, again be associated with Red Bull, and that if a deal was to be brokered, he was adamant on public excuses".

    Nationalist pride put aside, I would say that at least for money, Renault comes out of this mess rather well: 30 millions €/ year from Red Bull for the engine, 6 years of fees IN ADVANCE from Bernie, the "Historical Team" qualification...

    And all the announcements were coordinated. I'm sure Bernie was associated somehow; he didn't want to loose Red Bull.

    http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/showdown-todt-ecclestone-and-mosley-vs-marchionne/
     

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