Ferrari considers bold engine update plan for Russian GP | FerrariChat

Ferrari considers bold engine update plan for Russian GP

Discussion in 'F1' started by CSM0TION, Apr 22, 2016.

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  1. CSM0TION

    CSM0TION Formula Junior

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    #1 CSM0TION, Apr 22, 2016
    Ferrari considers bold engine update plan for Russian GP


    By: Roberto Chinchero, Journalist
    9 hours ago
    Ferrari is considering spending its first engine development tokens in time for the Russian Grand Prix in a bold bid to get its season back on track, Motosport.com can reveal.

    Despite having shown strong pace in the first three events, Ferrari is yet to fully capitalise on that form and deliver a victory it so seeks.

    But now, despite an engine failure for Sebastian Vettel in Bahrain that means he is already on his second powerunit, the Maranello outfit is weighing up a radical idea of introducing an updated third engine already.

    Sources have revealed that Ferrari had unlocked horsepower improvements on the dyno and is willing to spend three of its remaining nine development tokens to bring the combustion updates to track already.

    It is thought that both Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen will get the new engine if the team decides to go ahead with its plan.

    No downside

    Although it would seem strange to have Vettel already put on to his third power unit of the five he is allowed this season, the reality is that a rotation system means there would be little downside.

    That is because 30-40 percent of engine mileage is done in free practice sessions, where Ferrari can deploy the older specification of engines.

    Furthermore, there are events – like the Monaco and Singapore Grands Prix – that are not so power critical so the newer units may not be so essential to be used there.

    On the other hand, Russia is a power-sensitive track thanks to its long straights – and it is this situation that has made Ferrari consider a change to its plan.

    Marchionne hint

    Ferrari president Sergio Marchionne dropped a hint about the scheme in China last weekend when he suggested the team was ready to bring forward developments.

    Reflecting on the season, he said: “Things are going in the right direction. We have set ourselves important objectives, but we must learn to know a completely new car, so mistakes are understandable.

    “Despite everything we could have won in Australia, and in general I am happy with the progress.

    “But we have much work ahead of us, and we will bring forward an important development. Also, we know that Mercedes will not stop developing, so we have no illusions that they will be easily beaten.”
     
  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 william, Apr 22, 2016



    I think Ferrari is taking a huge gamble, so early in the season.

    No downside?

    Maybe Vettel and Raikkonen will start several GPs at the back of the grid late in the season...
     
  3. CSM0TION

    CSM0TION Formula Junior

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    #3 CSM0TION, Apr 22, 2016
    Yea I'm a little surprised by the no downside statement. I wonder if it's reliability driven? They feel they absolutely must do this?
     
  4. itschris

    itschris Formula 3

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    #4 itschris, Apr 22, 2016
    Well I guess being able to switch out to the previous engine mitigates some risk... I guess... but still sounds bad. Then again... what point is there to not doing it considering you're still lagging behind. It's not a 1/10 right now that's for sure.
     
  5. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 moretti, Apr 22, 2016
    Sounds like a damn good idea, using the older engines for the FP sessions and using the newer for the qualiying and racing makes a lot of sense .... where is the downside to that ?
     
  6. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 texasmr2, Apr 22, 2016
    No risk no gain, I say go for it.
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    #7 Mitch Alsup, Apr 22, 2016
    It used to be that each engine put in the car was a step forward from the previous engine.
     
  8. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #8 Fast_ian, Apr 22, 2016
    Dunno about that one Mitch.... For sure, when I was involved (again, admittedly a *long* time ago!), one DFV was pretty much identical to any other.

    Same with Ferrari or any other lumps IME; They all jealously guard the dyno #'s so as to be seen as "independent", but I really don't think much changes race-on-race. And all the teams know their serial #'s & they're expecting the same unit back after a rebuild. I think that's the same today (?)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  9. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    #9 scudF1, Apr 22, 2016
    I would say go for it!! We need to start winning some races and if that's what it takes so be it. It will also boost the team's psychology.
     
  10. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #10 freshmeat, Apr 22, 2016
    act of desperation and only another confirmation that we are further behind than "one tenth". time to put it all on the line, so i'm all for it.
     
  11. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 moretti, Apr 22, 2016
    I tend to agree with Mitch, in this day and age with the token system there is no point introducing a new engine that is using up tokens if it doesn't produce more benefits (not necessarily more power)
     
  12. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #12 Fast_ian, Apr 22, 2016
    Totally agree.

    They'd better spend those darn tokens wisely!

    Which is why I think Mitch's comment is a little wide of the mark.... Once upon a time ("The good old days") they were free to do whatever they wanted, race on race if they so chose.

    Now, they've gotta be "careful" before submitting a new unit to the FIA for sanctioning.

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  13. greg 19425

    greg 19425 Formula 3

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    #13 greg 19425, Apr 22, 2016
    Just win baby. :)
     
  14. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    #14 Kiwi Nick, Apr 23, 2016
    One thing you can be sure of is that any power increase that never leaves the garage won't do any good in a race.
     
  15. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #15 Fast_ian, Apr 23, 2016
    Very true! ;)

    Furthermore, no reliability issues will be found in the garage either.....

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  16. GTS Bruce

    GTS Bruce Pisses in your Cheerios

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    #16 GTS Bruce, Apr 23, 2016
    Go for it! Run to the front or blow it up trying. Already pushing hard enough to slide off from time to time and still can't keep up. So throw in a hand grenade and cross fingers. A good explosion and burn down can be very entertaining. GTS Bruce
     
  17. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #17 Remy Zero, Apr 23, 2016
    Attack! Attack! Attack!
     
  18. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #18 Bas, Apr 23, 2016
    +1

    What do we have to lose really? Chances of a title are slim, unfortunately. Might as well gamble. If it annoys the Mercs enough it's a success move IMO.

    Furthermore, we'll learn more about the engine the more power it produces, which in turn should work out positively next year.
     
  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 william, Apr 23, 2016
    The way the rules are, if your are not careful with engine usage at the begining of the season, you end up paying for it later.
    So for me it's a gamble.

    Having said that, maybe someone has already calculated that the penalty is worth incurring, if there are progress made.
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #20 Bas, Apr 23, 2016
    I factored that into my statement. If they continue like they are, have no upgrades, they'll play second fiddle till end of season. Might as well take the gamble and figure it out later...
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 william, Apr 23, 2016
    In any case, they are playing catch-up, in spite of all the pre-season optimistic statements.
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #22 Bas, Apr 23, 2016
    In truth pre season looked good.














    Until Merc rolled out of the garage ;).
     
  23. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 texasmr2, Apr 23, 2016
    I needed a little more insight regarding tokens and found this video...
    https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/video/2015/6/Engine_tokens_-_what_are_they_.html

    JA mentions Ferrari has 10 and Honda has 9 but if Ferrari were to introduce a new engine it will cost them 3 yet only cost Honda 2, what am I missing? I honestly think Ferrari should use the tokens and begin testing/running the new engine. I believe this has the chance to be very successful in the long run ie possible wins this season and a down and dirty fight with McLaren next season (if they retain the target on their head).

    Still a lot of racing left this season.
     
  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 TheMayor, Apr 23, 2016
    Mercedes is sandbagging. They still haven't been really tested against anyone.
     
  25. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #25 Fast_ian, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Lots! :D (Sorry, no malicious intent intended. ;) )

    Firstly, that video was from early last season; Many tokens have been spent by all since.

    You've gotta get your head around the attached. Tokens used are determined by the "weight" column - Changing your crankcase costs 3 tokens, changing the scavenge system only costs one as examples.

    Maybe more significant though is the second table; In summary, as time passes more & more stuff gets frozen; By 2020 95% will be frozen.

    Might as well use some tokens now! But again, the problem they have is they better spend 'em wisely.... Can't use the old "scatter gun" approach these days. ;)

    Cheers,
    Ian
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