Are Ferrari further behind Mercedes now than they were behind Mclaren and Williams? | FerrariChat

Are Ferrari further behind Mercedes now than they were behind Mclaren and Williams?

Discussion in 'F1' started by ren0312, Jul 4, 2016.

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  1. ren0312

    ren0312 Karting

    Aug 5, 2006
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    Are Ferrari further behind now than they were behind Williams and Mclaren in 1997-1999? I am looking at the Q2 times and Ferrari are less than 0.4 of a second behind? I recall a lot of races from 1997-1999 with MSC at the wheel where they were even further behind the Mclarens and Williams in qualifying and still won the race thanks to pit stops, or recall MSC's 1995 season with Benetton where he won with a slower car vs. the Williams. And 1998-1999 Hakinnen is as good or better than Hamilton and Rosberg now, although I would like to see an episode of Hamilton crying his heart out in the bushes.
     
  2. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    The difference is that today the cars are pretty much frozen in development, and despite the gap to other cars, there were areas you could develop on the car which meant you could still beat an outright quicker car with pit stops and strategy.

    I too would enjoy seeing Elton blubbing, wait till seasons end when Nico is champion....... Toys will be leaving a certain pram at a rate of knots! He will probably retire in anger (I hope), or claim it's all a racist conspiracy and it's because of his colour that no one loves him, much like he only just stopped himself doing in Monaco a few years ago
     
  3. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Now they're more like in 1996. In 1997 they got 5 wins and a few pole positions, IIRC.
     
  4. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Ferrari is simply having a very bad year in terms of luck..they could easily have bagged 3 or 4 wins by now and Seb could be up there with the mercs....
     
  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    You don't win races by luck!
    Pete
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Bad strategy rather than bad car.
     
  7. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Yes you do....just ask Elton how he won the 2008 Monaco g.p!!!
     
  8. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    Also that....
     
  9. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    I don't think the 95 Benetton was any slower than the 95 Williams. Pretty equal if memory serves.
     
  10. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    #10 TifosiUSA, Jul 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
    Only thanks to the greatness of Michael Schumacher. Seb is good but no MS.

    Schumi still won 3 in '96 when the car was awful
     
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mercedes has been sandbagging for 3 years. Every time they need to find another 1/2 second by some "miracle" they pull it out.

    It's a joke. Mercedes still hasn't been challenged to reveal it's real speed.
     
  12. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Completely agree. Absolutely hysterical how dominant their cars are/were. It's historic.

    Can't wait for the next Toto blurb about how "so and so is a threat" based on what team happens to pull a decent time in practice out of their ass. Then Q3 comes around and they take pole by .6 and win the race by 20 secs
     
  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Well, when they´re 20 secs. ahead of everybody else they´re not pushing at 100% but I think that they´re really challenged sometimes, i. e: Australia, Monaco or Canada. They´re almost impossible to beat at qualifying though.
     
  14. RallyeChris

    RallyeChris Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2012
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    The secret to the Merc has something to do with clean air. I'm convinced of it. When they are behind any of the top 3 team's cars, they struggle and do not exhibit their dominance. Once they are in front in clean air, they're gone. This is why Ferrari need to strategize and prioritize track position, rather than chasing their tail looking for equal outright speed.

    Why nobody can figure it out, IDK. I mean, I haven't figured it out LOL.
     
  15. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Interesting take with a lot of evidence to support it now that I think about it
     
  16. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    you mean over 8 years of bad luck...? seems unlikely.
     
  17. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    It's not all luck of course, but definitely poor strategy

    First Race = Bad Strategy - Should have won
    Second Race = Should have got more constructors points then Merc, (Vettel DNS)
    Third Race = fair to me
    Fourth Race = Kyvat took out 2nd place Vettel , again, Should have got more constructors points then Merc, (Vettel DNF)
    Fifth Race = again poor strategy snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
    Sixth Race = Tire Strategy again (3 stops for Vettel versus 2 for Hamilton)
    Seventh Race = fair
    Race Eight = again poor strategy trying to make the tires last (or bad luck)

    All in all, Ferrari should have been MUCH more competitive and the things above have made this season much worse then it should have been.
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Second row car and average strategy.

    They tossed out the baby with the bath tube when they sacked too many people.

    And I honestly think they are not as smart as other teams. In the past they could make up for it by spending more than others in testing. That's gone now.
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Doesn't the need for 3 stops versus 2 clearly indicate how cr@p the car is? Surely it indicates that it does not use it's tyres well, ie. lack mechanical or aero grip?
    Pete
     
  20. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    THIS is the problem. They aren't even close to being on the pole. Your chances of an accident or losing too much valuable time increase the farther back you start.

    Merc has a way of putting out that half second every time they need it. Then in the race they coast unless pushed by one another.
     
  21. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Agreed. Furthermore, refueling gave more variability to race strategy and... there was only one Michael Schumacher.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  22. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    The best thing is that in the past they didn´t spend more than others in testing but that testing was cheaper for them than for the rest.

    Williams tried to do the same and build their own test track from scratch but there were some legal problems with the local authorities.
     
  23. ren0312

    ren0312 Karting

    Aug 5, 2006
    164
    I recall Hakkinen saying in early in the 2000 season that the Mclaren was a full second ahead of the Ferrari in 1998 and 1999, and that they did not have that advantage anymore in 2000, and if you look at Irvine's performance in 1998 and 1999, the Ferrari F300 and F399 was a clear 2nd row car that was at times barely fast enough to hold Williams, Benetton, and Jordan, like at the 1999 Japanese GP, 1999 Italian GP, and 1998 European GP.
     
  24. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    Time for Ferrari to focus on 2017 100%
     

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