F1 is ridiculously complicated, for fans. | FerrariChat

F1 is ridiculously complicated, for fans.

Discussion in 'F1' started by Bas, Jul 15, 2016.

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  1. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Assetto Corsa is a sim I play, and yesterday they came with a update that allows you to drive the F138 and SF15-t. Both are made working very tightly together with Ferrari themselves (Kunos also made the Ferrari simulator thing). The F138 is easy and rather wonderful to drive. As you get in, do your outlap, and there's 2 buttons to worry about: DRS and KERS. Easy enough. Drive passed a DRS sign or see the blue light illuminate on your steering wheel, and you're good, and use KERS where you feel you get the biggest gain.

    The SF15-t however. **** me. A NIGHTMARE! The manual, just for the MGU systems, is TEN PAGES THICK! (for a sim, remember, not even the real thing!) You can (and have to, to be fast) set the MGU recovery rate, the deployment function, the battery stuff, everything. The worst part is the MGU Regen, it affects braking so much it isn't even funny. The distances are longer, and the balance is completely off. Very odd to drive. One thing you do have to do is press the KERS button in the game to get it, in F1 it's done automatically via GPS position and whatever map it's in. The maps they have are unlimited.

    For us fans though, we haven't a CLUE what bloody mode they're in, what it does to their car, what any of the letters mean or any number of other things. It's madness.

    F1, please make yourself less complicated so we can have the slightest idea of what's going on.
     
  2. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow!

    I have been away from the sim scene for years now. Apparently it really moved on. I always loved realistic sims but I am no engineer so setting up sway bars and camber was about as much as I could handle. Your stuff sounds far beyond that

    Details aside what computer does it run on?

    PS: the thing that will get me hooked again will be a moving sim
     
  3. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Other cars are much simpler, with some cars such as the Lotus 98T you can adjust for full qualifying boost (also hurts the engine so you can't do many laps on it). Assetto Corsa is highly accurate and by far my favorite sim.

    Don't have a moving rig as of yet, that combined with an oculus rift will be so cool though, see this video for the F138 with oculus etc on Spa:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2MsQrz7uJs[/ame]

    I've recently upgraded my computer to I5 6600K, DDR4 16gb, everything is upgraded except my graphics card (R9 280x, so a few years old). On my old system (amd 8320, ddr3 8gb and R9 280x) it ran just fine at full grids and max graphics though. It's very well optimized.

    I love racing the GT3 and GT2 class cars. They just added the 488 GT3 as well.
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 tifosi12, Jul 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
    You are speaking my language!

    That is exactly what I want. Monitors and screens are so yesterday.

    Now combine that with a moving rig and I'm in.

    PS: As I said I haven't followed the scene for a while but I'm VERY pleased to see that the Oculus Rift is apparently already supported by something useful. To me goggles is the way forward for any kind of sim. I'm done with 3 screens and projectors, way too much hardware. That said, the graphics quality in the youtube video is not overwhelming. Your thoughts?
     
  5. sammysaber

    sammysaber Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2011
    553
    Given the last couple of races, it looks like the drivers don't have a clue either lol !

    Joking aside, it would be brilliant if the fans could get some insight into what modes are being utilised in real time.

    Best,

    Sammy
     
  6. SWB

    SWB Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2006
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    Toronto & Ottawa
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    Wow looks amazing. What resolution does Oculus Rift on? Is it backwards compatible with older Sims like R Factor or GT Legends?
     
  7. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Pedro Braga Soares
    Bas, how can i get that for my pc..can it be downloaded or do i have to buy it?
     
  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Yep. Just did a bunch of long runs using different mappings and the difference between them (battery usage vs lap times) is noticeable. Enough to have something for the fans to see what mode the driver is in to explain lap time differences.

    Oculus rift is 2160x1200, and Oled. Graphics are supposed to be fantastic according to friends who tried one.

    I've found a video of the Oculus rift working on GTR2, but nothing for GT legends. Couldn't find it for Rfactor, only Rfactor2.

    I used to play Rfactor a lot, easily my most hours are on that. Assetto Corsa absolutely destroys Rfactor. There's no comparrison. More and more mods coming out, too, and easily implemented as the developers specifically made the game mod friendly.
    You have to buy it, but if you don't have a wheel + pedals I wouldn't bother. Forget keyboard, and a controller won't do it justice in any way, shape or form.
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    This becoming quickly my fav thread
     
  10. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Wait, I thought they were easy to drive?

    I just downloaded the update so will have to give it a whirl this weekend. Wonder if my old Oculus DK1 will still work with it?
     
  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    :)

    More regarding the car and driving it:

    For the SF15T Assetto Corsa basically had to make new buttons (key combinations) in order to work all the systems in the car (CTRL + 1-2-3 or 4)

    When you adjust the MGU-K regen (0 to 100%), there is a HUGE difference in your braking performance (distances and feel). Up to 70% is driveable, but after that you'll just find the car going backwards under hard braking (no abs or stability control, of course!). It really is a massive difference and I can easily see how a driver has a ''dumb'' (to our eyes) spin.

    Driving with different deployment is quite interesting, too. Several settings, Charging, which does what it says on the tin, it deploys little to no KERS and charges very fast. Under a lap and it should be full (remember to have the regen on though, or you're charging nothing... ask me how I know). From then on you have low deployment, high, overtake, topspeed and HOTLAP mode. Each setting deploys more KERS at different percentages and in different gears, automatically. You can override this with the KERS button to deploy more in lower or higher gears, for instance. You can lap for some time driving with medium deployment and 60% regen, switching to low and 70% for a lap or 2 to get more KERS back.

    Going for a HOTLAP is very tough. You have to make sure your tires are in good working range, regen off (or for longer tracks perhaps adjust it to some regen). You're under serious pressure too, you want everything done perfect. Mess up later in the lap and you know you have binned this lap, and the next, because you'll have to do a slow lap doing charging your battery. Don't have enough fuel? Back to the pit...

    You can then also change the MGU-H to 2 settings, motor or battery. On motor, it gives you more power yet again, whilst on battery it'll regenerate exhaust gasses into electricity.

    Finally we have engine braking (0-13). At the lowest setting it uses less engine braking, so your rear won't lock as easily. It also allows for more downforce because of exhaust flow to the diffuser and monkey seat. You do use more fuel. Go higher and the opposite is true.

    All this, and you don't have an engineer yapping in your ears suggesting what modes to use! It's bloody difficult to figure out what will actually be the fastest modes to be in for a hot lap and long run, as it's not as easy to say ''put it on hotlap and just go''.
    ===========

    These are my own findings, and I'm pleasantly surprised. I was sure the 488 GT3 and F138 would be my favourite cars of the new pack. Driving the 15-t is frustrating but oh so rewarding when you get it right, and all the settings add a whole new dimension to the game. It's my favourite car to drive now.

    Currently my best is a 1.11.0 with the SF15-t on the laserscanned Red Bull Ring (accurate to 2mm), but I was on mediums.
     
  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Far from it :eek:

    No reason it shouldn't work, right?
     
  13. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2014
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    This has been very instructive, and now I get it. What interest I still had in F1 has been diminished by about 99%. This is no longer a sport for drivers and mechanics, it's a freaking geek show with car noises(albeit muffled). Now I can start sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays. Thanks. Tour de France here I come!
     
  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Driving these new cars is much harder than the pre-2014 cars, the challenge to them is huge. So much torque, and all these systems then adding ever more torque.

    But yes, I agree, as a fan, you don't see any of this stuff happening and it's all to easy to say ''yeah, but he lost 6 tenths a lap there for 5 laps, he sucks!''. It's very cool to drive but for us fans it's taken a lot away, and there are so many systems it's really hard to a) comprehend and b) design something visually so that we know what's going on.

    And the noise is rubbish :D.
     
  15. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2012
    6,482
    Honolulu, HI
    All this computer stuff is best left to the youngsters. I still have problems getting my vcr programmed. At least the time is right twice a day.
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I've gone for 2.5 years not understanding anything F1 ''power unit'' related as I couldn't be bothered to work out what all the system did as they are stupid (as I keep doing).

    F1 needs to be simplified in order to succeed.

    Noise, power, good looking cars, exciting racing, less PR speak (though the latter will be tough to achieve as it would depend on the multi billion dollar owner/sponsors to not give a toss...).

    Winning formula.
     
  17. toil

    toil F1 Rookie
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    Apr 23, 2014
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    Tour de France? Drug cheats with hidden motors in the cycle frame sounds even less appealing
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Surely the automatically via GPS you refer to is now illegal in F1?

    Also you want to be able to use KERS when you want to and not always the same each lap, ie. when battling.
    Pete
     
  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Not sure if it's illegal now but the developers mentioned this when they where making the in car SF15t together with Ferrari that's how it's done. For the sim they haven't done the GPS mapping (yet, may come). Even if GPS isn't allowed, teams are still allowed to make their own KERS mappings so it would be easily implemented for them to design maps specifically to each track and then deployment % on each different map.

    You can still override the KERS deployment whenever you want it. All teams have different ways of naming these or if it's a button or paddle. Some have the paddle on the back, or a button called override, overtake or boost.

    I've been looking at the ''space ship'' steering wheels a little bit lately and there's actually a terrible amount of logic in them.
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Just did a 1.08.956 with F138, 8th fastest overall with that :).
     
  21. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9svXXRlLdI[/ame]

    Onboard lap of 1.08.771 with the F138. Here and there some mistakes, still working on a better setup
     
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Ha! Reminds me of the last time I did Zeltweg in a sim: Was in demo car from Sauber, but the full monty, was pretty cool.
     
  23. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
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    The funny thing with this thread is, here we have posts declaring just how complicated the modern F1 cars are to drive on a racing sim, and we have other people posting elsewhere that Lewis Hamilton is an idiot because he couldn't work out what was wrong with his car in Baku!

    Perhaps all those posting: "Hamilton is an idiot" should get there hands on Bas' simulator and get a taste of just how hard it is to drive these cars whilst controlling all of the systems on board (and then they should remember that he is doing it in a car that is vibrating, bouncing around and putting his life at risk lap after lap!)
     
  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Big difference having half an hour or so in the car (at time of writing) to what must be well over 1000+ hours
     
  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    +44
     

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