Christian Horner reveals Renault's power deficit to Mercedes

Yet nobody was WHINING when Red Bull was dominating just a few seasons ago.

 

Whats funny, is my memories of Australia, how people on this forum were jumping up and down cheering/jeering at Red Bull being beaten by Mercedes. Then just a few years later jumping up and down that a Red Bull beat the Mercedes.

Some people just love to hate whichever team is on top. I think Red Bull is the single best team for the sport on the field, they could be the team to eclipse Ferrari in mythos. I'm glad to see the relationship with an engine supplier work out for them again.

I'm not exactly a Mercedes fan, too political.

It amazes me the development this season from Mercedes, Red Bull, and Mclaren. They keep bringing faster and faster cars at an amazing rate. Ferrari perhaps was so used to real test data, they haven't been able to to transition to properly implementing digital optimization. Good coding helps, but you also want massive computer banks able to optimize thousands of different designs over a season. Each time you make a part, its a new optimized version. Mclaren is doing this, and it shows. Red Bull has been doing this, and last year, Mercedes start to constantly tweak and run new parts each track as well.

 

Well then the Ferrari must be 147 down from the Mercedes.

They couldn't even catch a soda pop maker with the DRS flaps open on Sunday.

 

Plenty of people where whining.

I repeat the following often, but Mercedes domination is worse for the sport, and whilst Red Bull got my respect for dominating, Mercedes does not.

Mercedes (along with Renault) forced the rules. Mercedes had their systems ready whilst Ferrari and Ecclestone where bickering with the rest about going 4 cilinder or not. Mercedes couldn't care how many cilinders the engines are, as long as the rest was with it, since they had it pretty much perfected, and the amount of cilinders is not important.

With the engine freeze in 2014, no one could improve, all they could work on was equaling Mercedes power...whilst Mercedes already knew much more about the engines at that level, they could improve further. At some point a token system was introduced for during the season instead of after, but the damage was long done. All teams still playing catch up, Mercedes still knowing more because of their huge advantage...Also, with no competition, they've been able to work on their next year car each year without fail, because their 1-2 at the end of the year is guaranteed. All they need is for their drivers to stop crashing into each other.

Ferrari's domination remains the most impressive to me, most teams had tons of money due to tobacco sponsoring, testing was allowed year round, there was no engine regulation apart from (basically) engine size...It was fantastic to see each team bringing upgrade after upgrade (chassis, aero, engine) and see the cars go faster and faster.

Mercedes build the fastest car in 2014, congratulations...and ever since then, they're enjoying their success because of dumb regulations. In 2014, the one time a team came close to fight them at 1 race (I'm ignoring the 3 red bull wins because they came after Mercedes messed up), it was of course Mercedes powered and Mercedes told them they couldn't use the faster engine settings ''for fear of the engine''. Farcical.

 

Seb: "I think we were a lot faster but it is Hungary and you need to be more than a lot faster," he said. "I think we had half a second to a second when Ricciardo's tyres started to drop off and doing small mistakes but not enough for us to get past."

 

I seriously doubt Red Bull (or ANY team for that matter) will ever beat Ferrari in Mythos.

I do like Red Bull a lot, with the specific exemption of Mateschitz and Helmut who both need to be kept well away from speaking in public. I quite like Horner, he's fairly open in the game he plays. Always quite liked how he came as a young man, be put in charge of a team and it only took a handful of years for them to become world bloody champion.

I didn't mind the RBR domination as at least it was fair, and I was one of the few who liked Vettel openly here, lol.

Fully agree with you that Mercedes is far too political.

 

I think its less likely for F1 to remain a pinnacle sport for fourty years than for Ferrari to be eclipsed by Red Bull

 

Ferrari will be faster at Hockenheim, Spa and Monza IMO

 

I see Mercedes dominating F1 at present like a repeat of the Silver Arrows during the pre-war era. Once they will have made their mark and rewritten the book, Mercedes will inevitably withdraw. They have made a commitment to F1 until 2020, according to Bernie, and they may quit then.
They may go back to being just an engine supplier once more (if the rules suit them), or even vanish from F1 completely, and rest on their laurels for the next 50 years. That fits with their corporate plans.

Had it not be for the Le Mans catastrophe in 55, Mercedes was on course then to dominate F1 AND endurance as well, but the extend of the accident, and the number of casualties made the MB board cancel motorsport activities when Mercedes was at its peak, with Fangio and Moss. Mercedes may have dominated the rest of the 50s decade, they were so much more advanced than any other team.

 

+1 Very well expressed Bas. This is precisely why I detest these regulations and this formula.

 

To be honest, these regulations don't favour anyone, no more Mercedes than any other team.

But when there were no such restrictions, Ferrari spent years in the wilderness, being regularly dominated by McLaren, Lotus, Williams, Benetton and all ...

So, to me the restrictions are mostly used as an excuse now.


BTW, I don't like these regulations and this formula either.

 

That's because their wasn't a picayune token system keeping the other teams from competing.

 

lol

 

That is Mercedes to a tee !!!

Marketing people , not sports people

Totally agree on the historical stuff as well, you must be an old bugger like me william

 

I will be 70 soon.

To be fair to Mercedes (or Toyota, Honda, Ford and all), motor racing isn't their main activity. Producing and selling cars is.
F1 is just a marketing tool.
That's what make them different from Williams, McLaren, Manor, etc...