Can Ferrari learn from Ducati ?

You mean should Ferrari be sold to VW?

 

You mean should Ferrari take advantage from special regulations for backmarkers that in F1 doesn't exist? Or use aero flaps that probably will be banned for next year?

 

Honestly,
I don't see the point of this thread!

 

Thanks for spoiling the race result for Me! - I can only get a highlights programme that is shown on Monday night at 8pm so was trying to avoid finding out the result before seeing the programme!

Next time, try putting a "SPOILER ALERT!" on this kind of post!

The aero flaps are to be banned at the end of the season, but the biggest change Ducati have made is that they have given up trying to make a bike that can change direction as well as a Yamaha, and have reverted back to their old method of making the bike bloody fast in a straight line and quite mediocre through the real twisty stuff.

The Red Bull ring is quite a basic track with no "flip-flop" bends and so no real quick changes of direction are required. That means the Ducati's can make good use of their straight line speed.

(The really strange thing with the Ducati is that on a dry, twisty circuit, the bike simply doesn't work that well at all. However, if the same track is soaking wet, the Ducati somehow comes alive!)

Suggesting Ferrari copy the Ducati example is basically asking them to go back to what they used to do - Produce a car that has great straight-line speed but doesn't go round corners very well.

For years on end in the past we had seasons where there were @ 3 tracks that really suited the Ferrari (Monza being the main one), and they'd be pretty rubbish everywhere else, so were pretty much guaranteed not to win the Championship.

During Schumacher's era, Ferrari started building cars that had decent straight-line speed, but more importantly, were fast through the bends as well, and that's exactly what you need to win the Championships in the modern era.

Ferrari's issue these days is on the chassis side and the aero side. The trick with today's cars is not only having a good power-unit, but also matching aero grip and mechanical grip from the chassis, and getting them to work together, and Ferrari's chassis and aero are not working together very well at all (unlike the Mercedes and Red Bull cars).

It's not as bad as Williams (who are still struggling to get their chassis and aero working together and have pretty much run out of ideas), or Force India (who have seemingly given up on trying to get their chassis and aero working together and are trying to just make the car as fast as possible in a straight line instead - Which as Ferrari have shown in the past, is not the way to go), but they need to understand the relationship between the chassis and aero much better than they do.

So no, Ferrari shouldn't look to learn any lessons from Ducati, they should try to learn the lessons of how to get the chassis and aero working in harmony instead!

 

The answer to that is NO.

 

Ferrari haven't gone anywhere because their chief engineer, James Allison, his wife died unexpectedly early on in the season so he was away, and has now left the team.

Only small upgrades have come from the team, only engine has received numerous upgrades (that side can still work full steam, of course).

Terribly unfortunate for all involved.

 

Dunno; from 2010 till now we finished 2nd or 3rd (exception 2014, finished 4th with 1 point difference).

Not the marque of doing ''terrible''. Just not dominating.

IMO it's their pride which hurts them the most, and if they want to dominate again, they need to put their pride aside. They're struggling to get certain people working for them, and unfortunately, they're the best in the business. The move to Ferrari includes a move to Italy, and for many that's too big an ask. Italy is not the best place to live at the moment, many of these brilliant men also have kids in school so moving them is an issue, too. Language barrier is huge, in Milan/Rome and some tourist places English is more widely spoken but once you're away from that (...where Ferrari is based!) they don't speak it. Some people (myself included) are just **** at learning another language so it ends there...

What they HAVE to do, is set up a technology center in the UK and let all the brainy people do the work there. With high speed internet just about anywhere it's not an issue where the 2 bases are. If they allowed Newey to set up a UK office when they started talking to him I'm sure they'd have gotten him. If we still had that base, there's a chance we also retained Allison.

It all started going tits up again when LdM had to take the reigns and wanted to make the team as italian as possible.

 

Some people see LdM as the saviour of Ferrari, but you see him as the man who wrecked the Scuderia. He may have been both, for all I know, but I think it's too simplistic to see him as the sole architect of the present chaos.

There is a high turnover of technical staff at Maranello, and that's not terribly attractive for anyone thinking about working for them. I don't care if they are Italian or not, top engineers don't wish to go through revolving doors, just to get Ferrari on their CV.

The mentality of sacking everybody in sight when the Scuderia doesn't meet expectation is just plain ridiculous. Not only they fire some technicians, but they also demotivate the others who in turn leave. Not very clever.

The fact that Maranello's fortune seemed to rest on one man's shoulders (Allison) is also wrong. there should be other people in the wings ready to pick up the work in case of deficiency.

As for Ferrari opening a design centre in UK, the idea isn't new. It's likely to be resisted once more, and dividing strength isn't a good recipe. How many Italians want to come to work in England, may I ask? Also, you have to distance the design team from the construction and operation facilities; is that good?

There is a thread asking "Should Ferrari leave F1 ?"
Uprooting Ferrari from its natural environment may be an open door to that scenario.
How Italian would be Ferrari if their cars aren't designed in Italy anymore?
What the Ferrari supporters will think? It's a bit like asking a Champagne lover to start drinking a Californian bubbly instead ...

 

What a stable that would...Audi (Auto Union), Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ducati and Ferrari...wow!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You forgot ... Porsche too!!

Also Skoda and SEAT in rallying and WTCC.

 

I was about to see the DVR recording of the race just now! SPOLIER ALERT next time.

 

VW could share great amounts of hybrid technology with Ferrari. Far more than FIAT Chrysler could ever do. Far more than Mercedes. Wouldn't it just shock the daylights out of sweater boy if VW bought up the outstanding Ferrari stock?

 

Maybe, but right now VW has to face the consequences of the Dieselgate, and be ready to fork out £billions in fines and recalls. I am not sure if they have the stomach for another acquisition right now.

A few years ago, VW was interested in buying Alfa Romeo from FIAT. I wonder what they had in mind for the Milanese firm.

 

Or they could stick one of their magic diesels in the successor to Laferrari

 

If you have all the technological resources you need, than applying more technology won't achieve anything. Changing the culture and the way management works together is the only solution. That usually requires establishing an emotional environment where people outside really want to work for you and the people within don't want to leave. But that requires understanding basic fundamentals of organisational success and consistently applying them from top down. The Red Bull and Mercedes team principals are always happy to chat to the f1 broadcasting team and also seem in a positive mood.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

Vettel is well capable of driving the wheels off anything you put him in. There's no point getting round the corner quicker, if the guy you just beat blows you into the dust on the straight. The Ferrari is simply not quick enough. Hamilton makes it look like a master class every time out (well, almost every time !)........to get back on racing terms with the top 2 teams at present, the Ferrari needs speed.......and if the Italian technicians can't find it, time to look elsewhere for the answer......8 years in the doldrums isn't good enough for any team.

 

Lets not jump the gun, this was their first win in 6 years, on a track that was very favorable to the power of the Ducati... That said, Gigi deserves a lot of credit for the turnaround, along with his team of engineers they have build a bike that can compete for the top step of the podium... I must say I was disappointed that Stoner turned down the wild card entry this weekend, fingers crossed for the Phillip Island round!!!

 

That same Ducati that has gotten 3rd in the standings 8 years in a row?

Smart thread.

 

The OP might be onto something, considering Ducati's recent uplift.

Blasting past the opposition and great late braking is old school - but even if others pass your car through a corner which is rare in F1 these days for aero reasons, big power will win again on the straight.

In clean air and quali the Mercs are mega. But in the race, track position is always King