No more moving under braking? | FerrariChat

No more moving under braking?

Discussion in 'F1' started by singletrack, Oct 22, 2016.

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  1. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Bit of a weird rule.

    Going back to Verstappen, the move was fine but it was exaggerated, because Hamilton let of the brakes very early on to take the old Chicane instead of continuing braking. Hamilton moved very early, before 160m (braking zone is 80) and Verstappen moved before it as well. IMO that move was fine.

    Going back to earlier in the season, T2 hungary and Kemmel straight, those where made too late IMO.

    That said, Red Bull has made a good point: Learn how to steer in the braking zone, Max can do it, why can't you?
     
  3. ypsilon

    ypsilon F1 Rookie

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    Max Verstappen: Maybe they can overtake me now.

    Max Verstappen: Maybe they can overtake me now

    Strange isn't it; Schumacher, Senna, Prost, etc. they all did it every now and then. Mostly on each other or in Schumi's case on Hakkinen or D.Hill.

    Mercedes last race filed a complaint, then suddenly "let it go". "Where not like that, we're winners".

    Not even 2 weeks later a rule change.
     
  4. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

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    Reading the rule again, it really does say that you have to cause an "evasive" response in the attacking car - so to me that means you can still move under breaking; you just can't do so abruptly, or perhaps at the last moment.

    You can still do some really effective slow/gradual blocking in my opinion, and it can still create really exciting racing, albeit not quite as terrifying.

    Probably essential for Stroll's arrival also. : )
     
  5. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Verstappen says he won't change the way he drive.

    Probably moving under braking is second nature to him, and part of his technique.

    Let's see what happens.



    BTW, I agree that Schumacher and Senna did it, but I don't recall Prost doing it.
     
  6. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The original rule said, IIRC, you can't defend twice under braking, effectively means it's only one move. Therefore, this new rule say, effectively, you can't defend at all. Thank you Lewis Hamilton. Thank you Mercedes. For being such sore losers.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't think this has anything to do with Hamilton or Mercedes.

    In fact, the most vociferous against moving under braking has been Kimi Raikkonen on his radio when he was following Verstappen.
    The driving of the young Dutch came under scrutiny, notably his defending technique.
    Anyone can see that this waving at the approach of corner is dangerous.
     
  8. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Taking your hands off the wheel to wave is bound to be dangerous at 200mph, weaving isn't quite as bad ! Hehe
     
  9. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    We talking about the 1 finger wave ?
     
  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    It's just funny to me how Hamilton declared it fair racing when it wasn't happening to him (Canada, Germany, Spa), but the first time he got schooled by Max defending (and the least controversial one)...we suddenly have a ban.

    There was a long drivers briefing about the issue, with Grosjean and Hamilton leading the charge. Hamilton has said it's ''having respect''. So...let the fastest car through? Great words from the ''GOAT''.
     
  11. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Grosjean..... how does he know it's going on, he never catches up with anyone does he? Hehehehe.
     
  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    He doesn't race in the top 6, barely in the top 10. Pretty sure it's the same Grosjean that crashed into every single moving object there was on track not long ago.

    That said, he's one of the biggest whiners about everything on the grid so no very surprising to see him complain about something that has never affected him.
     
  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, that has never affected me either, but I still have an opinion about it !

    To me it's bad behaviour on the track, and it should be stamped out.

    Why some drivers resort to unfair tactics, and others not?
     
  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Fair enough.

    My gripe is with the Japanese GP though. Verstappen did nothing wrong, yet likely now he'll get a penalty for it, simply because Hamilton let of the brakes and choose another part of the track. This way you can force your opponent into receiving a penalty, you get the advantage (if it's a 5 second penalty, given in say the last 10 or so laps...all you have to do is stick behind him!). So lets say Verstappen doesn't defend, literally waves Hamilton by because the latter is in a faster car. That's not racing. Either way, for the slower car in front, it will be a lose-lose situation.

    It's unfortunate the incidents that happend where with Kimi and Hamilton, as I'll probably get accused of being biased...but Hungary/Spa where just too bloody late, but in Suzuka, Hamilton showed where he was going far too early, and Verstappen blocked the move before the braking zone. Hamilton could easily have slowed the car down, but he choose not to. With the new rules it'll be a penalty for Verstappen. It's anti racing.
     
  15. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Probably. But that was back in Spa. Which, i think Max overdid it. But he did it fairly in Japan, IMO.

    The considerations only came about after the incident in Japan. This coming from so called the greatest drivers on earth.
     
  16. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Grosjean? That bugger doesn't even deserve to be in F1 at the moment, IMO. Forever complaining about something.
     
  17. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    Yep he is becoming a real pain in the Ha$$
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 william, Oct 23, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
    I think the concept of racing has changed since I watch motor racing.

    Before, the sport was about going as fast as you could, and accept that some were faster than you. There was not much obstruction.

    Now, there is the added ingredient that you have to prevent others faster than you to overtake, and that brings defensive techniques.

    The level of aggression in motor racing, and F1 in particular, has reached new heights.
    For old folks like me, that looks very unsporting.

    We can debate ad nausea about that transformation, but I think the reasons are that racing is less dangerous, the tracks safer, the cars easier to control, and the survival rate infinitely better than before. Also, drivers are under far more pressure to perform.
     
  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am going to use a stereotype here. Sorry Nerofer.

    Grosjean is French, and they are natural moaners.

    I read recently in one of our tabloids, that the French are the most unhappy nation.

    They always have something to moan about.



    BTW, why Haas chose Grosjean instead of Rossi, I will never understand.
     
  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    +1
     
  21. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    I see this to be in Max's favour .

    He will chuck one up the inside at every opportunity into the braking zone knowing that the guy in front will most likely be penalized if they move over too far under braking at that point, he is good on the brakes in any case.Has already pulled off some great moves this year.

    Ok, the other guys can try to pull the same move on Max of course, but he will for sure make it 'difficult' for them.Probably just hug the inside and hang them out to dry on the exit.This guy is the real deal ,inexperienced yes .
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I think he's quite quick, somewhat prone to mistakes (though not nearly as much as before)...forever complaining doesn't mean you're not F1 material. Vettel & Alonso moan excessively...

    But you are right in that he's a right soft **** with his constant moaning and publicly blaming the team to exonerate himself (very much like another driver...;)). That, I really don't like, and many teams do not either, hence why he's being overlooked by big boy teams (same goes for Wehrlein).

    :D

    *Haas choose Grosjean over Rossi because of experience. What I honestly don't understand is why they don't have Vergne in the team. IMO he was better than Gutierrez, both owned by Ferrari, and Vergne has much more experience. Vergne + Rossi or Vergne + Grosjean would've been much better IMO.
     
  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Good point.
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Talking about Wehrlein.
    This guy turns to be a great disappointment, I think.

    Not only he isn't as good as Mercedes pretended he was, but also he seems to have an attitude problem as well.

    Apparently, he wasn't well liked in DTM, and I can understand why.

    It's not apparent because he is a tail ender most of the time, but it has been reported that he keeps himself to himself and doesn't interact with other drivers or people within his Manor team. I never seen a photo of him with a smile.

    Driving wise, Haryanto was sometimes faster than him, and Ocon often gets better results.

    Today, his tantrum on the radio after refusing his engineer's instruction to switch off the engine after landing in the kitty litter denotes him as a spoil brat.
    Is he Elton the Second ?
     
  25. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    Wehrwolf has a loooong way to go before he can challenge Lewis ..in any department.
     

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