So, is Mercedes that good? or is Ferrari that complacent?

Ummm, well, so... what's your point?

 

It's very well documented here what the issues with Ferrari are.

 

Hadn´t heard of those dog races. I suppose cars are enough for me.

I´m not happy with the results of "our" team at this moment, but, to put things in perspective, winning in F1 must not be easy at all, specially when you´re fighting teams with higher budgets and that, at this moment, have stronger political muscle. But as Enzo Ferrari said, real success is not winning a lot but surviving many years: many big teams have fallen and even disappeared, so now it´s time to hang in there. Sooner or later the tide will turn.

In any case, just think that it doesn´t matter if you get angry or not: the guys working at the team are not affected by your mood, for good or bad, so relax and enjoy your poison.

 

I'm not sure where the OP was going here, but Ferrari, make more money ( profit ) from F-1 than what goes into it. That much is clear. The revenue streams from FIA, FOM, and sponsorship as well as swag sales see to that.

Ferrari is needed more by F-1 than Ferrari needs F-1 = true its the Selling point for the road cars - all this racing heritage, but in reality, the person buying a new Ferrari is just about as likely to NOT know anything about F-1 racing... as much as a buyer being a real enthusiast. When you cut it apart - Ferrari is the only "luxury exotic" brand in F-1. there was a time when you had Lotus, Porsche, Lamborghini, Maserati, BMW, etc... all competing in F-1, but now is Mercedes, Renault, Honda, Ferrari.... who of those is the "exotic" in the field?

Ferrari is also the emotional link in F-1 ... its the only viable link to its history. for that alone its will stay in f-1 even if FCA goes Belly up. without the history - the Championship becomes worthless... But I do fear that in 20 years - there will not be much of a championship left....

Having lived through massive years of Ferrari disappointment and then hope, and finally triumph, it will take time and they will be back on top again. I'd like to see Vettel win a championship with Ferrari... but if not someone else will...

I've been a Ferrari fan since 1970... I lived through all the Lauda years, then 79, and Villeneuve... then mid 80's when the were the best of the rest, and finally with Prost... it was so close... when the old man died, Ferrari was literally sunk... and it took over a decade to bring it back to winning.... we could be in that same period now.

 

Hybrid era Mercedes is the most dominant team in F1 history and it's not even close.

 

In the arms race that F1 has become, I cannot help being pessimistic for Ferrari to catch and overtake Mercedes to go back to its former glory.

Mercedes is a huge industrial group not only involved in mass producing cars, but trucks (world leader in that field, I believe), also involved in the aircraft industry (Airbus), the defence industry, and various other industrial ventures. Mercedes is thriving in Germany and has no cloud on the horizon like VAG (Volkswagen Group) has with the diesel gate and the threat of multi millions $ compensation to pay. You must have noticed that AUDI is out the WEC, and VW itself off the WRC. That says a lot.

Compared to this, Ferrari has gone back to be an isolated small constructor, with a limited engineering pool of talents. But even then, the FCA group is shrinking itself, and won't bring much technical or engineering support to Ferrari in his F1 endeavour. The pessimist in me predict that FIAT will not exist in 15 years time. Really, joining 2 ailing companies was hardly recipe for success; Chrysler has been on life support for years, and FIAT's footprint has been slowing decreasing.

F1 being what it is now, an engineering contest between industrial giants fuelled by unlimited budget, only the main players can expect to get to the top, and even then.
I can only see Mercedes, Renault/Nissan, Toyota or Honda maybe, possibly Hyundai/KIA in future, enjoying enough resources to maintain a campaign in F1. All these companies are heavily engaged in research and new technologies, leaving Maranello far behind.

Ferrari will become like the "garagists" at the mercy of sponsors to stay in F1; no better than Williams, Sauber, Manor and else ... Ferrari is even at a disadvantage compared to those, because it's supposed to do its own power unit, where others can lease theirs from the dominant suppliers.
Ferrari will always be fighting alone; that's its destiny. But Williams, McLaren, Manor, Force India and others can have any engine at the back of their cars, choosing the best available.

 

I have to say that when Enzo Ferrari passed away, the spirit went out of the company and the team, and Ferrari became like any other outfit for me.

Ferrari was one of the few men I admired, and he gave a sense of "exceptionalism" to the Scuderia.

 

I guess I am losing my memory...I don't recollect F1 in the 40s...I thought it started in 1950....



"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end...."


lorenzobandini

 

The World Drivers Championship started in 1950, and you are correct on that account.

But F1 resurrected in 1947 after the war period, I believe.

 

I thought it was "Grand Prix" racing previously, and that "Formula One's" inception was 1950... :shrug:

 

So, that makes me 20 older than you.

I attended my first Grand Prix at Spa-Francorchamps in 1961.
Phil Hill won, and became my instant hero. Ferrari was my favourite team for a long time.
The Scuderia was racing in F1 and endurance then.

For me, the Schumacher era was completely different from the 60s and 70s.
I must say that I started to lose interest in Ferrari when it left sports car racing.

 

Ferrari is that bad. They barely compete with Red Bull

 

From Wikipedia:


"The Formula One series originated with the European Grand Prix Motor Racing (q.v. for pre-1947 history) of the 1920s and 1930s. The formula is a set of rules which all participants' cars must meet. Formula One was a new formula agreed upon after World War II during 1946, with the first non-championship races being held that year. A number of Grand Prix racing organisations had laid out rules for a world championship before the war, but due to the suspension of racing during the conflict, the World Drivers' Championship was not formalised until 1947. "

 

....ala Lotus....

(my favorite team always.....mit Colin)



"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end....."


lorenzobandini

 

Ferrari's F1 program won't improve until it effects their bottom line. Their only interest at the moment is to put money in Fiat and Abu Dhabi's pockets. Both the race cars and street cars are suffering.

 

Did you conveniently cut your quote where you did? Hmmmm???

As per Paul Harvey (rip, some of us know), "Now, the rest of the story...."

"History[edit]

Main article: History of Formula One

The Formula One series originated with the European Grand Prix Motor Racing (q.v. for pre-1947 history) of the 1920s and 1930s. The formula is a set of rules which all participants' cars must meet. Formula One was a new formula agreed upon after World War II during 1946, with the first non-championship races being held that year. A number of Grand Prix racing organisations had laid out rules for a world championship before the war, but due to the suspension of racing during the conflict, the World Drivers' Championship was not formalised until 1947. The first world championship race was held at Silverstone, United Kingdom in 1950. A championship for constructors followed in 1958. National championships existed in South Africa and the UK in the 1960s and 1970s. Non-championship Formula One events were held for many years, but due to the increasing cost of competition, the last of these occurred in 1983.[8]"

Semantics, I guess, more than anything. I'm twixt the two of you in age (born 1954)



"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end....."

lorenzobandini

 

No, but I tried to keep it short.

 

Not bad, considering that Red Bull is pretty much the best team in F1. Very well organized, wise people running things. If they didn't have such a **** engine, they'd have fought Mercedes tooth and nail this year.

 

The Renault engine isn't such a bad engine.

It has allowed Red Bull to pocket 5 wins since the beginning of the hybrid era, and there is no other unit that can say that bar the dominant Mercedes.

In any case, what's the alternative for Red Bull?