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New macca

Discussion in 'F1' started by Igor Ound, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
    8,102
    The Horn
    Full Name:
    Igor Ound
    Honda set for Mercedes-style split turbine/compressor

    If only they could have known this was the best configuration before, if for example they had a Mercedes engine already installed in their cars, they wouldn't have thrown away 2 years of development! I foresee many more reliabilty issues this year before the new engine is ready to win with Red Bull ;)
     
  2. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,179
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    The problem is, Honda were just too pig headed to admit that their concept had too many flaws to it when it came to performance and reliability, and were determined to push on with it, to save face if nothing else, instead of admitting that they got it wrong, ditch it after the first season and make a start on an engine concept similar to the one used by Mercedes/Ferrari and Renault.

    The other manufacturers had already looked at similar, smaller designs and ruled them out because they could not spin the turbo up fast enough to make the full boost required without the turbo's exploding (as Honda's did when spun up fast enough for full boost), and they couldn't cope with the heat being generated if the packaging was too tight (as Honda also found out).

    The difference was, the others spotted the problems very early on and had the sense to ditch them ASAP, whilst Honda had convinced themselves that they knew better than the others and could make it work.

    Basically, they wasted a whole season trying to make a purse out of a sows ear and are now going to be a year behind Mercedes/Ferrari and Renault in development terms.
     
  3. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,186
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Very much agree Phill. I might add they had to ar least try something different because they won't be able to out-Mercedes Mercedes.
     
  4. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,267
    Madison Ohio
    Full Name:
    David A.
    Basically, they wasted a whole season trying to make a purse out of a sows ear and are now going to be a year behind Mercedes/Ferrari and Renault in development terms.

    Could it be they couldn't change because the rules require no configuration change once finalized?
     
  5. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    8,179
    Worcester, England
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    Phill J
    I fully understand why they tried it, but it was apparent very early on in the project (even before they were subject to FIA restrictions) that there were serious reliability issues that could only be overcome by severely reducing performance.

    On the evidence of their p:censored:ss poor reliability in 2015 alone they could have applied to the FIA to make the required modifications for their 2016 power unit.

    The problem was, Honda had all but openly bragged that their superior engineering ability meant that they could succeed where all the other manufacturers had failed, and so they stuck with their flawed concept for a season longer than they really should have done, and a big part of that will have been to save face.
     
  6. Denman_Honda

    Denman_Honda Karting

    Sep 3, 2009
    123
    DFW, TX
    Full Name:
    Chris Denman
    I know that they admitted during the token era of their development that the compressor housing could physically not be made big enough with the packaging in the Vee of the engine (can't recall if that was '15 or '16). AFAIK, changing this configuration would certainly need FIA waivers as the token use between seasons or mid season would be one of may prohibitive factors.

    Hopefully, they actually can out Mercedes-Mercedes due to their necessity to overcome sooo many shortcomings. Adding the things they have learned to a proper layout might take them further than it might look on the surface- copying. With the token system being lifted, all manufacturers are being given the freedom to start over if they wish. It would be interesting to learn what each manufacturer is reconfiguring with this more open development.
     

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