McLaren approaches Mercedes RE: Engine switch - ESPN

I heard about this yesterday. Mac has been dropping hints that they could be "winning" if the had the Merc motor.

But even if they did a switch over it would probably take months. I can't see it happening in mid season.

The only good thing is they have a lot of info on the old Merc engine so they might have a head start.

But what a blow it would be to Honda to have someone kick them out of F1!

 

While the FIA has mandated that all F1 engines share common mounting points, everything else from cooling to MGU/Turbo and other system locations and cooling requirements are different. So, at a minimum, the rear of the car would need a redesign.

I say, let them do it. The 2017 season can tolerate a bit more drama.

 

Yep this is it. Mclaren still swears by their size zero concept which they've been trying to do since at least 2014 (still with Merc engines but didn't win either, partly due to heat issues if run at high power for too long).

Honda had to build their engine with Mclaren's size zero in mind, which IMO is part oft he reason why it simply doesn't work. They've not been able to build a working, reliable engine, yet Mclaren insists upon this size zero thing of theirs. I doubt it would work with whatever power unit that's around, to be honest.

I'm actually going as far as saying Mclaren is as much to blame as Honda for this. They're so focused on size zero they've lost sight of everything else. Size zero (ignoring heat) is not the answer to everything, you have to have the whole package working together to have a quick car that's able to compete for podiums/titles. Look at Williams for example, they've got a fatboy car yet have been solidly competing for 4th/3rd since 2014.



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Even if by some miracle they secure an engine in the next 7 days, they certainly won't be able to run it. The chassis needs a complete redesign, crash testing etc. So that's quite simply impossible already. And apart from that, once the season has started...I honestly don't know if the rules even allow an engine manufacturer swap at any point through the season, with the X engines max per season rules. For 2017, Mclaren is once again well and truly ****ed.

 

I thought all the article say that Honda were the ones who have the hard on for the Size Zero method? The last article on Motorsport when as far as to say that the major issue is Honda not taking any advice from anyone including Mac and Simon.

 

When considering everything that Honda has brought to McLaren, the power units, sponsors, and money, can McLaren afford to become a customer team? Back when McLaren was winning races with Mercedes power, Mercedes was a vested partner, their factory involvement was focused with McLaren. Though they might be better off with Mercedes power, I doubt they would see the same development that Mercedes gives its factory team.

 

They dropped 'size zero' after 2015. Even in 2015 Honda said it was not a request from McLaren but their own packaging target.

Last year the turbo size was accordingly increased to the maximum that would fit in the valley.

This year with the PU regulation 'blackbox' areas gone, they switched to the Merc layout. Which is also contributed to the oil tank issues, as it takes on an unusual shape as it has to wrap around the compressor. They were obviously not good enough to even get that right off the bat but least of their issues in the big picture.

 

Here's something to think about:

If they decided to switch they would have to drop out. As soon as the decision was made Honda would drop its support. That means no more engines and no more cash.

I think the FIA has penalties for this, right? At least liberty should. And Mac would still have to pay Alonso.

Can you imagine Honda wanting to see their engines dead each week for several months while Mac makes the switch? No freakin' way. They would cut the program immediately.

 

I asked on another thread if Mcl f1 was a separate entity from the road cars; I asked that question because if I ran Honda I'd buy McL F1 and spare my company the embarrassment of being thrown out of F1....

 

That's assuming McLaren would like to sell their F1 team.

Honda suffered the humiliation of failing in F1 before.

They don't put the same value to motor racing as a Western company would do.

For them, as long as you learn something and give a challenge to your engineers, it's a good thing.

Winning is the icing on the cake, of course, but not the only goal; learning is.

 

BMW should buy Mac and get it over with.

Both the car and F1 team. They have the money.

Mac leaked Apple was looking at buying the car division last year. Apple played it down

 

Not in the current era does a sane person/company buy an F1 team. Wait for new rules to be announced, especially if engines rules look more promising (cheaper), THEN it's viable to enter, either as engine supplier or buying another team.

IF the engine rules are better (Liberty/Brawn want it well before FIA's 2020 date), it would be a decent one for BMW to supply engines to Mclaren. They can also get on with building a supercar that they're missing from their roster.

 

BMW should agree to supplying the McLaren F1 team as well as road cars with power units. It makes sense and certainly these discussions must be happening. At this point, would Mercedes really agree to supplying engines to McLaren when BMW is about to be producing their road car engines, on top of all the bad blood and messy divorce ....? I'm not sure Mercedes would agree to this.

 

To be treated like Sauber and be dropped like a hot potato in case of economic downturn?
No !!

Big constructors are not good for F1.

They never stay for the long haul.

 

Agreed on the road car side. And offer to buy a stake in the company.

F1 side is murky as Bas pointed out. It would take years to make a competent PU based on the current regs and current regs expire in 2020, with no roadmap yet of what lies beyond that.

If Merc or Renault want to walk away it's relatively straightforward. McLaren's situation is more complicated than the other manufacturer teams since it's racing operation is bundled with the other two businesses. And no mfr wants to be tied to an F1 team unless it's winning and at least somewhat revenue neutral based on prize money and sponsorship. It's a massive money pit otherwise and McLaren's future F1 success is anything but sure.

 

Shouldn't Boullier be talking to his buddies at Renault about engines that are good enough for Red Bull?

 

Not sure if you saw the 2016 and 2017 Mclarens but both still have the size zero rear end...

 

they moved away from the "size-zero" concept

source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-reveals-its-2017-f1-challenger-876638/

 

'Size zero' was the turbo placement, arrangement and sizing. It has been well discussed in the various articles and on other f1 forums.

Honda to follow Mercedes' philosophy with McLaren's 2017 F1 engine - F1 - Autosport

 

Can't say I can see any logic in BMW buying McLaren in any way shape or form!

Looking at the F1 side of things alone, the cost of buying the team, designing and developing a suitable power-unit, developing the car to make it competitive again, and running the team would put BMW into financial trouble as I see it.

Add in the cost of buying the road car division, and the costs of developing future supercars and hypercars, and it would put BMW in a very vulnerable position.

 

yup and as bas mentioned....wait till 2020 when Liberty Media takes over and a possible new formula is introduced.

 

Then why did VW buy Bugatti? BMW already owns RR and Bentley. Adding a high performance sports car to it's line up would make sense.

Besides, the Mac F1 car had a BMW engines so there is something there of a legacy to talk about. Now that Ron is gone the management might actually have some common sense.

 

Can McLaren last that long? Without more sponsorship and prize money I can't see it.

 

True but RR and Bentley are currently in the luxo touring car market which is BMW's forte. The Mac F1 is a naturally aspirated individual throttle bodied engine....these new PU + Hybrid are super complicated and expensive. Turbos are BMW's forte but I don't see them YET getting on these new PU + Hybrid engines.