Ferrari's floor | FerrariChat

Ferrari's floor

Discussion in 'F1' started by maulaf, Apr 13, 2017.

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  1. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    #1 maulaf, Apr 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Apparently Ferrari is doing funky stuff with their floor.
    According to AMuS other teams have recorded their floor bending downwards on the outer edges. Also their rear wing and diffusor are said to be bending under load.

    The latter has been a story for probably about 10 years now (that stuff bends at high speeds). A bending floor is something as far as I know.

    Ferrari has definitely been up to interesting things with their floor. This is an image from Barcelona, those stickers are apparently temperature sensors. Why the heck is floor temperature of interest? Second pic is the floor they raced in Melbourne, last image is floor incl. some bump as raced in China.

    The fact that they won in Melbourne without the bulky floor suggests it isn't any innovation that's going to have the biggest impact.
    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/ferrari-unterboden-flexibel-12008634.html
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  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  3. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    wow. I don't think that amount of flapping is providing any stability.
     
  4. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    Actually, it was Mclaren's pointing out Ferrari's bending floor design that helped trigger "Ferrarigate". There was no way that Ferrari could of figured that Mclaren could of known of their bending floor, other than espionage.

    Originally, the rules kept floors from bending up, but had nothing about the floor getting lower. The Ferrari would have the floor get sucked down to the point the aerodynamics stalled out, similar to opening DRS. It gave a reduction in drag after the stall out pressure was reached.
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    The flappy floor would be somewhat of a side effect of a thin floor (or ''weakened'' if they're heating it somehow), but only when slowing down anyways so should have a huge side effect. Presumably what they're trying to do is heat the floor somehow so that it bends down a bit, either just get the floor lower to the ground or create some sort of special effect that sends the aero to a different part where it's more useful (my guess at that would be accelerating air towards the diffuser so it has more rear end...and we know what Vettel does with good rear ends!).

    Is it legal? Who knows, but if it passes the necessary tests, yes.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Amazing how close the rear tire tread is to the floor edge -- would think the OD shape of the tire is quite variable in use...
     
  7. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    #7 Igor Ound, Apr 13, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
    Believe the rear suspension arms pull the wheel away from the floor when they unload so it won't ever touch it. This probably to give some sort of passive rear steering as seen in the famous Rosberg Suzuka pic where the rears seem to steer opposite to the fronts
    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-f1-2016/story-behind-one-formula-1s-greatest-photos


    In any case more here on the floor if you speak italian https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-ce-un-coltello-nel-fondo-innovativo-della-sf70h-893325/

    David Sanchez is the man!
     
  8. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    Sommerfield/Piola suggest the bump in the floor is part of an oil cooling loop. They don't discuss bending too much except the flutter thing at the front of the floor intended to disrupt turbulence...

    I guess having the floor anyhow as a large extended surface, at least the thought of using it as a flat plate heat exchanger is not entirely out of the world. The more pronounced bump may be to withstand the bending floor from flexing the floor.
     
  9. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I read something about the floor cooling coolant but could not find the source as in Ferrari is circulating it(coolant) hence the bulge on both sides....so for now its just hypothetical.
     
  10. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    This technology is interesting. if they are circulating oil for cooling that would explain the temp stickers... but not sure about the bending?

    as the air speeds up under the car - it gets warmer... wonder if the bending is an effort to maximize the venture effect - rear diffuser ...
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari are using different densities of carbon fiber weaving at the trailing edges and just aft of the trailing edges of the floor so to bend the floor at speeds creating more of a ground effect resulting in significant downforce. Like Red Bull's front wings circa 2011, as long as it passes the tests it is indeed legal. Charlie may decide to apply rule 3.15 but there is lots of bending of components (front wing elements, rear wing mounting pylons bending backwards etc) happening which slip under the radar and I am sure are known about but not tended to........yet.
     
  12. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    APRIL 16, 2017

    Flexible Ferrari story nonsense says Lauda



    A controversy about the legality of Ferrari's competitive 2017 car is continuing in Bahrain.

    Earlier, Red Bull official Dr Helmut Marko said "incriminating" video footage of flexible aerodynamic features of the red car is doing the rounds.

    But Niki Lauda, the team chairman at Mercedes, played down the rumours as "nonsense".

    "If someone believes it is illegal, all cars go through technical inspections," the F1 legend told German television RTL.

    The flexible parts of the Ferrari most under scrutiny are the front wing flaps, the rear wing and the 'monkey seat'.

    But some believe the biggest advantage is being achieved through the floor.

    Former F1 driver turned pundit Marc Surer, however, told Germany's Sky: "It is legal.

    "Ferrari has cleverly used a gap in the rules."

    And so for now, while Marko is among the naysayers, there is no sign of an official protest.

    "Nothing is coming from us," he said. "The FIA are the police."
     
  13. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    I had to laugh at Christian Horner trying to be discreet about looking at the Ferrari on the grid and didn't notice the camera on him..............I seem to recall him saying that was un-professional of teams to do that-how times change.
     
  14. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    It seems Lauda rather says the talk about illegality is nonsense as the car is deemed legal by the judging body. Right he is. But clearly he reserved judgement on the issue itself. Political talk...

    haha...
     
  15. NJB13

    NJB13 Formula 3

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    I read some hypothesizing that nitinol may be in use. Basically it's a metal with a muscle memory property that is triggered by heat.

    The application might be that the floor is shaped to an illegal form in its "memorized" position then deformed to its legal position. Apply heat through the lubricants running through it and it will revert to its memorized (better aero) form.

    Another application might be using the rear wing supports attachment points to the floor. Have the "memorized" position raised or lowered and the deformed position that you want it tested. Use heated lubricants in the floor when desired to return the pillars to an alternate desired position at the right point on the circuit.

    Here's a simple video demonstrating how nitinol works.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLGaF6cWl04
     
  16. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Monkey seat?
     
  17. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

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    The small spoiler that sits below the rear wing and behind/above the exhaust exit. You can see it in the middle photo above.
     
  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 jgonzalesm6, Apr 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is used to generate its own downforce as well as "kicking up" the exhaust flow to increase the efficiency and consistency underneath the main rear wing element(the lower part of the main rear wing).
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  19. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    During the Sky Sports pre-race show, Pat Symonds was questioning a section of the Ferrari floor far forward of those slots by the tires - there is a curved slot in the floor right beside the widest part of the side pods, alongside the drivers torso. The slot is open-ended and is used for high pressure relief (bleeding high pressure air at that specific location from under the floor, to keep the lowest pressure under the floor). The regulations prohibit a closed-ended slot in the floor, so this open ended curved slot results in a section of a flap on the side of the floor that vibrates and flexes - it was the vibration of that slotted section that Symonds suggested was a safety issue, if I understood him correctly.
     
  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think Pat needs to worry about Bottas T-wing falling off (safety issue???) for the second time.

    aaaah ***hettaboutit!!! Pat....Im sure the flappy section was tested via in the wind tunnel and has yet to fall off.
     
  21. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    Who cares if the floor flexes. As long as it wins races.
     
  22. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    Watching onboard views this season, every car's front wings flex like crazy. If the FIA can't enforce what I can see on television, how can the quibble about Ferrari's floor?

    Oh wait, this is F1.
     
  23. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

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    The thing is, *everything* flexes in the real world. They regulated force on specific locations, and amount of flex allowed. You make it pass the test, but flex somewhere else, you pass the test.

    Aside from dictating spec parts and simple shapes, it is always a battle.
     

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