Mercedes could assist Honda to solve its engine trouble

It keeps getting weirder and weirder.

Still . . . . "A" for effort.

 

Red Bull doesn't want though

 

Just scrap the whole thing and start from scratch using a similar design as everyone else. No concept Zero nonsense, no fancy impeller turbine weirdo nonsense. Just build a normal damn power unit like everyone else. Its not working.

 

I'll be surprised if Ferrari are totally happy about this situation either - Especially when there are rules in place specifically designed to stop inter-team cooperation!

Perhaps Ferrari should be allowed to give more help to Haas?

 

Holy seppuku, Batman!

 

Yep. I also find it unsporting. Ferrari and Renault where both told to suck it up when they had a power deficit (still do for Renault and Ferrari behind in quali power mode)....If mercedes is so kind to tell us what they're doing (oil to lower DET so they can run more boost) and how, that'll be spiffing. lol.

 

As big a fan I am, and have been of Honda, if you need to seek consultation from another engine manufacturer, it is time to get out of the sport, as much as I hate to say that.

Boy, do I miss the late '80s and very early '90s in F1..............! Quite a different scenario for Honda back then.

 

+1

What an embarrassment.

 

Renault got a lot of help from RBR and that Cosworth guy. Still, not the epic fail of Honda going to MB for help.

 

Never knew what the heck did Ron Dennis see in Honda..

 

Yes, but RBR uses their engines, Mario Illien did work on their ICE from 2015 onwards, but he didn't work on the Mercedes power unit. As far as I'm concerned, he was just a hired gun, completely different from what Mercedes/Honda are trying to do. Either buy the Mercedes Staff or do it yourself, but don't ask for help along the way from a rival team.

 

APRIL 27, 2017

Honda help better for F1 says Boullier



Eric Boullier is making the case that Honda should be given a boost to finally get up to speed in formula one.

2017 is actually the Japanese carmaker's third season since returning to the sport with McLaren, but the new power unit is reportedly still over 100hp down on its rivals.

It has triggered speculation that Honda could now collaborate with the likes of Mercedes, or get regulatory help as well in a bid to close the performance gap.

"It's something we have to solve," McLaren team boss Boullier is quoted by the Spanish sports daily AS.

"I'm not asking for help from anyone to beat the best engine, but to get closer to that three tenths for a balance in performance I think would be fairer and more positive for formula one," said the Frenchman.

However, Boullier acknowledged that there will likely be roadblocks on the way to any moves to give Honda a boost in this way.

"We are in a position where I am not sure that everyone wants us to have more performance from our engine. But I think it will be better for formula one to have a level playing field.

"It will be more attractive for other teams and engine manufacturers to enter formula one, and for the fans it will be much better if they see closer racing on the track," Boullier added.

Meanwhile, Honda has declined to confirm that former Mercedes and Renault engine expert Mario Illien is now working to help solve the Japanese marque's crisis.

"We are already using, and will continue to use, outside resources," a spokesman told GMM. "But I'm afraid we do not disclose details of any consultants or suppliers."

 

No one could've foreseen it to be this bad. IMO the idea behind it was to get an engine build to Mclaren's wishes (size zero at the time), presumably the thought behind it was that it may be a little down on power (say some 25-30bhp in race trim) but would make up for it with less drag.

Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault obviously wouldn't custom make an engine for Mclaren, so this was the only option. And Ron WAS right, not allowed to challenge the Mercedes as a customer for as long as they're the more competitive team.

 

I dunno Bas...but they sucked back as Honda team. They were already on the backfoot then on.

 

The Honda V10 was the most powerful after the BMW.

The V8 cars sucked because of chassis and aero, not because of terrible engines.

Mclaren as a team wants to win. With a Mercedes engine, they are not allowed for as long as Mercedes itself is there competing for wins. They can't get a Ferrari engine, Renault is possible but also had issues back then (still does to a much smaller degree).

Going with another manufacturer was the only real option. They needed a bespoke engine to fit in with the size zero concept. Had it worked (reliable engine and power within at least 35bhp), they would've looked like geniuses.

 

The Ferrari 054 was actually the most powerful V10 exceeding 1000 CV in quali trim. The BMW was very close and the Merchant third best. That Honda was far behind.

As for this year's Ferrari, there's no quali power deficit. They just can't turn on their tyres on a single lap. Which serves them well in the race as the tyres degrade slower compared to Mercedes's.

 

In race trim the Ferrari and Honda were par, with the BMW slightly more powerful.

2005 Engines:-

BMW P84/5 - 925 BHP @ 19 000 RPM
Ferrari Tipo 054 - 900 BHP @ 19 000 RPM
Honda RA005E - 900 BHP @ 19 000 RPM

The 2005 Tipo 055 pushed out 940 BHP.

 

Actually it's the other way round, as the 055 had reduced power for reliability reasons, due to the new restrictions regarding the number of engines per season.

The figures I have seen claim the 054 and 055 as the most powerful of the grid in their respective years. The GPS data confirm that as far as acceleration is concerned. Terminal velocity is another indicator, but it's more down to aero really.

 

Why do we have to "save McLaren"? No one gave a crap about other teams struggling. Ferrari was terrible in the 80's. No one asked to help them.

 

Why? Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

If this were an aero problem that made one team much more competitive than all the others, would the call be to "open the books" to make another team catch up? Red Bull owned F1 for four straight years, mainly down to aero, and by all accounts some tricky bendable floor and other parts. Im sure that Manor or one of the other "minnows" would have loved a gentle push in the right direction
Big boy sport, you want to compete, figure it out.

 

Spot on

Mclaren claims to be a better sports car manufacturer than ferrari. So let them build their own engines

 

I have never heard such claim.

Sources ??

 

Well... they IMPLIED it with the intro of the 12c-Mp4.

But that's not the point. I just don't see why there's all this calling to "help McLaren" when soooooooooooo many other teams have come and went. I really liked Super Aguri-- gone. Marussia-- gone. Lotus --- gone.

Right now Sauber and Force India are actually in worse financial situations than McLaren and I don't hear people say "we need to save Sauber!"

McLaren has almost as many F1 wins as Ferrari. This is no "minor" team. Let them struggle out of it themselves like Ferrari did.


Send in Mercedes to help Honda? Eff 'em. Go put on your big boy pants and get to work.