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  #121  
Old 06-18-2017, 02:39 PM
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Honda still saying it's not over.

Honda retain hope with McLaren | PlanetF1 : PlanetF1
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  #122  
Old 06-18-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Simon^2 View Post
I don't see any reasonable scenario where Porsche allows a McLaren-Porsche.

I suppose it would be possible if Porsche buys McLaren outright, but I can't see that happening. I don't see why porsche would do that. Porsche has multi decade supercar cred with the 550, 904 GTS, original 911 turbo, 930 turbo, 959, 911 GT1, Carerra GT, to the 918.

Porsche does not need McLaren.
Porsche did supply engines to McLaren in the past; they were branded TAG, as Porsche didn't want to be associated with F1, and also TAG was paying for them.

A similar arrangement could well exist in future.
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  #123  
Old 06-18-2017, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Simon^2 View Post
I don't see any reasonable scenario where Porsche allows a McLaren-Porsche.

I suppose it would be possible if Porsche buys McLaren outright, but I can't see that happening. I don't see why porsche would do that. Porsche has multi decade supercar cred with the 550, 904 GTS, original 911 turbo, 930 turbo, 959, 911 GT1, Carerra GT, to the 918.

Porsche does not need McLaren.
Porsche don't care about the road car issue that you have pointed out. Porsche do enormous amounts of engineering consulting for many car/motorcycle companies, heck they probably do some for Ferrari.

So if McLaren come along with a big enough cheque, Porsche will make them an engine, BUT we need to remember their last effort was a complete embarrassment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_3512
Pete
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  #124  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by william View Post
Porsche did supply engines to McLaren in the past; they were branded TAG, as Porsche didn't want to be associated with F1, and also TAG was paying for them.

A similar arrangement could well exist in future.
The difference is that Porsche was a small company back then not able to spend that sort of money. Now they are part of the VW Group and I do not see why VW should allow them to built an engine under a different name. Even with the Dieseslgate VW should have enough recources to pay for that without having a sponsor who takes all the positive publicity if they win and if they loose it is still a VW engine...Furthermore Porsche is busy in LMP1 at the moment.
And after Honda failing big time I canīt see any big manufacturer risking the same outcome having 4 years less experience in that engine formula than the rest.
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  #125  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by P.Singhof View Post
And after Honda failing big time I canīt see any big manufacturer risking the same outcome having 4 years less experience in that engine formula than the rest.
How about with a new engine formula in 2021?...Lets say getting rid of the MGU-H component?...post #111 same thread.
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  #126  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
How about with a new engine formula in 2021?...Lets say getting rid of the MGU-H component?...post #111 same thread.
Does not help McLaren for 2018....
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  #127  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by P.Singhof View Post
The difference is that Porsche was a small company back then not able to spend that sort of money. Now they are part of the VW Group and I do not see why VW should allow them to built an engine under a different name..
My understanding is that, apart from car production under its own brand, Porsche is still an automotive consultant and works for other car makers that are not part of the VW group.

I think that it is kept confidential (like for Riccardo and Lotus in UK), but Porsche design office has clients in the Far East, even some in Europe, and the US, I have read. Not so long ago, for example, Porsche was behind the design of the Harley Davidson Street Rod engine.
I even read that Porsche was consulted recently by a US aircraft engine manufacturer in the design of their products.

So, I cannot see why they couldn't agree - for the right price - to design a F1 engine for a third party, to be badged by a sponsor. There would be must to gain, that I can't see why VW would object to that!
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  #128  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by P.Singhof View Post
Does not help McLaren for 2018....
Mercedes/Renault probably might???....for the meantime
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  #129  
Old 06-18-2017, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Porsche don't care about the road car issue that you have pointed out. Porsche do enormous amounts of engineering consulting for many car/motorcycle companies, heck they probably do some for Ferrari.

So if McLaren come along with a big enough cheque, Porsche will make them an engine, BUT we need to remember their last effort was a complete embarrassment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_3512
Pete
+1
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  #130  
Old 06-18-2017, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Porsche don't care about the road car issue that you have pointed out. Porsche do enormous amounts of engineering consulting for many car/motorcycle companies, heck they probably do some for Ferrari.

So if McLaren come along with a big enough cheque, Porsche will make them an engine, BUT we need to remember their last effort was a complete embarrassment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_3512
Pete
This is a pity that the F1 has so limited rules that only admit 1.6 V6 Turbo, the Porsche 2.0 V4 turbo hybrid of the 919 lmp1 would be a fantastic engine for the MC Laren.
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  #131  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 444sp View Post
This is a pity that the F1 has so limited rules that only admit 1.6 V6 Turbo, the Porsche 2.0 V4 turbo hybrid of the 919 lmp1 would be a fantastic engine for the MC Laren.
You can thank Renault for that
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  #132  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:03 PM
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Apparently the Honda and Merc engines are very similar. Its easier to switch to Merc power than Renault or Ferrari (not that Ferrari would ever give them a motor).

But I still think Honda and Mac are going to be together longer than people say they are. I don't believe the break up this year at all. I do think Alonso may go though.

Zak Brown says the lack of sponsorship is causing a financial crisis that its greater than the money Honda is giving them. It's hard to believe considering they are getting engines for free and 1/2 the driver salary paid. True, no points at all will hurt them financially but they've had chances for points several times this year. It's not like they are running dead last at the end of the races.

To me getting off Honda's gravy train is the biggest problem, not the mechanical or political issues.
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  #133  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:20 PM
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Ferrari makes engines not motors, just saying

I still think sauber is in play, hard to see mac going back to merc just a guess
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  #134  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:53 AM
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/o...-romeo-919226/

? Not in a million years IMO. In the same way that Hamilton will never race for Ferrari.
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  #135  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:30 AM
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JUNE 19, 2017

Honda to deliver engine upgrade in Baku?



Honda looks set to deliver a much-needed engine upgrade this weekend in Baku.

In Canada just over a week ago, McLaren chiefs admitted their frustration was at boiling point after the team's hapless Japanese partner failed to deliver the upgrade as scheduled.

Honda's F1 chief Yusuke Hasegawa then said he could not promise it will even be ready for the following race in Azerbaijan.

But he has now told the Japanese publication Sportiva: "There will be some kind of improvement in the combustion engine in Baku.

"I don't know if you can call it specification three, but we'll definitely introduce something even if it is intermediate," Hasegawa added.

The report said Honda has been working hard on 'specification three' at Sakura to address the current power unit's problems, including excessive vibration and a 90hp performance deficit.

But Hasegawa played down hopes the new engine will completely end Honda's 2017 troubles.

"If you improve the combustion engine, the temperature of the exhaust decreases by being more efficient, which reduces the energy recovered through the turbo and MGU-H, making it necessary to change these parts too.

"The situation is more complicated than people can imagine," he added.

The outcome of Honda's latest efforts to improve could be the final straw for the McLaren partnership, and also the next turning point in the career of Fernando Alonso.

"Due to some of his decisions, Fernando could be remembered as one of the lost talents of F1," former Honda F1 team boss Nick Fry is quoted by Spain's La Sexta.
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  #136  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Igor Ound View Post
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/o...-romeo-919226/

? Not in a million years IMO. In the same way that Hamilton will never race for Ferrari.
Anything can happen in F1, and it sometimes does ...

In the 60s and 70s, I never thought in a million years that Ferrari would ever supply engines to "garagists" (as the Old Man used to call the independent teams which he despised), yet the Scuderia did just that with Minardi, Prost, Manor, Sauber, etc...

In the 50s, following a misunderstanding early in his career, Stirling Moss and Ferrari were like enemies, with the Brit lending his skills to any team that could beat the cars from Maranello (Maserati, Mercedes, Vanwall, Cooper, Lotus).

Yet in 1962, after the Englishman convincingly humiliated his cars twice the previous year, Enzo Ferrari invited Moss for a meeting and some tests. Moss agreed to drive a Ferrari in future (albeit under Rob Walker's colour). Later on Moss had the Goodwood accident that shortened his career, and the deal never came through.

So, Hamilton at Ferrari is improbable, but one never know ...
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  #137  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
Mercedes/Renault probably might???....for the meantime
Why should they play filler???
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  #138  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by frefan View Post
You can thank Renault for that
And Mercedes.
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  #139  
Old 06-20-2017, 11:52 PM
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Porsche could be an option for 2020 or 2021
Porsche to attend F1 engine meeting, Austria GP > F1 News > Grandprix.com
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  #140  
Old 06-21-2017, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by P.Singhof View Post
Why should they play filler???
$$$

Although it's hard to see where Mclaren would get the money from if Honda pulls the plug, they come close to last in the championship, they have no pay drivers, they need to pay Alonso and still have close to no sponsors.

That's why I think they'll stay with Honda, especially if the engine upgrade finally gives slightly better results.
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