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  #21  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:01 AM
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I think we need a couple pics...

of the early LP400 and I second the comment about Asian design and the women : ) ok resume debate
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Last edited by Sunracer; 03-26-2012 at 12:02 AM. Reason: typo
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  #22  
Old 03-26-2012, 12:30 AM
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I was actually around for the LP400 versus 512BB debates - sure, I was a tween, but still, I subscribed to Car and Driver and Road and Track - and the consensus was that the Lambo was the most shockingly aggressive looking car of all time (To that point), but the Ferrari was more beautiful and drivable. FWIW, I had a poster of the 512BB (And the famous SUNOCO Porche 917) in my bedroom back then, not the Countach.

I agree that the Countach was ruined by the body cladding in later iterations, but the LP400 had the misfortune to appear right, smack, dab in the middle of a revolution in tire technology. Since Lamborghini was always inches from bankruptcy, they didn't have the resources to re-design the car until the Diablo showed up YEARS later. And, the Diablo was a huge improvement over the final Countach versions.

Meanwhile, Ferrari replaced the sublime Berlinetta Boxer with the Testarosa, which I always hated. I don't see how you could consider the TR to be anything other than a step back in terms of styling.

Not until the 355 did Ferrari get its mojo back with mid engine designs, and the 360 is an immortal classic of design purity, IMO. It's a perfect combination of retro and modern to me.

Cheers,

George
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  #23  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfighter View Post
The original Countach 'Periscopo' is a beautiful car and an icon, better looking than a Boxer (not a better car, but better looking).

As originally conceived, it was not a normal car with busy details tacked on (e.g., 599, California, F12, F430, 458). The whole shape was outrageous -- windscreen/front bonnet angle, height of the car, unique wheel arch cutouts -- I think it was a landmark that later got ruined in its later multi-winged/flared versions.

I owned a Periscopo Countach, so I appreciate the fact that you like them.

That said, a Countach was much more of a styling statement - something to be outrageeous - than just about any other car. Shocking - yes. Wild - yes. Aggressive - yes. Exotic - double YES. But beautiful and timeless - not really. Instead, the Countach defined its time and was defined by its time - a time of revolution in all things. It was a landmark of its time - a time now passed.

If you are looking at Lambos - consider the Miura and the Countach. When it came out, The Miura was almost as outrageous as the Countach. It went to the edge of the cliff and looked over, but didn/t jump in. The Coutach jumped over the edge without looking back. So, which one is considered the beautiful car today?

Meanwhile, Ferraris have typically had timeless design. Design that will always be appreciated.

If you compare cars to clothing , think of the Ferrari design as being the classic 'little black dress.' Think of the Countach as being that outrageous and revealing dress that some actress wears to the Academy Awards (Like the one J Lopez wore about 5 years ago). Can't remember it? That is the point. Classsic is timeless...outrageous lasts 10 minutes until something else more outrageous comes along.
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  #24  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:48 PM
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ask the Asian fanbois:

another perspective:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....ng-gone-asian/
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  #25  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Pepper View Post
I was actually around for the LP400 versus 512BB debates - sure, I was a tween, but still, I subscribed to Car and Driver and Road and Track - and the consensus was that the Lambo was the most shockingly aggressive looking car of all time (To that point), but the Ferrari was more beautiful and drivable. FWIW, I had a poster of the 512BB (And the famous SUNOCO Porche 917) in my bedroom back then, not the Countach.

I agree that the Countach was ruined by the body cladding in later iterations, but the LP400 had the misfortune to appear right, smack, dab in the middle of a revolution in tire technology. Since Lamborghini was always inches from bankruptcy, they didn't have the resources to re-design the car until the Diablo showed up YEARS later. And, the Diablo was a huge improvement over the final Countach versions.

Meanwhile, Ferrari replaced the sublime Berlinetta Boxer with the Testarosa, which I always hated. I don't see how you could consider the TR to be anything other than a step back in terms of styling.

Not until the 355 did Ferrari get its mojo back with mid engine designs, and the 360 is an immortal classic of design purity, IMO. It's a perfect combination of retro and modern to me.

Cheers,

George
For me - when the testarossa came out it was the most outrageous design and was exotic + modern all at once... very purposefull - I would agree that it has not matured into a beauty, but that is becuase it was not carried on into a newer design it was the last flat 12 mid engined car.

as for the V-8's you just cant beat the 308 for beauty.... 348 & 360- 430's are not pretty cars and just dont have that Presance. the 355 & 458 have the presance... all the front engined modern Ferrari's to me are just not pretty, Fast - yes, pretty to look at - not so much.

the 550 was close as it had the daytona look about it... but the 599 / and the new one, just dont really do much for me.
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  #26  
Old 03-30-2012, 02:37 PM
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Ferrari Design Overtones: Going, Going, Gone Asian? Part 2

Part 2

http://chadglass.blogspot.com/2012/0...-going_30.html

excerpt:

Seeing Red

(Continued from part 1) And from the same site, http://www.ferrari.com/, the modern Breadvan-esque/station wagon/"shooting brake" FF is a clear Asiatic success story:
"The FF conquers Asia. Ferrari’s new four-seater four-wheel drive car unveiled at the Shanghai Show by Ferrari CEO Amedeo Felisa and Felipe Massa.

"Shanghai, 19 April, 2011 – The FF is enjoying huge success on the Asian market having already won over a plethora of clients in the Far East. The new car made its official debut in the Asia-Pacific region today at the Shanghai Show where it was unveiled by Prancing Horse CEO Amedeo Felisa and Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro driver Felipe Massa. The latter couldn’t hide his delight with Maranello’s latest creation: 'I’m very pleased to be here in Shanghai for the presentation of the FF,' he told journalists.
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  #27  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by WILLIAM H View Post

If they are buying Ferraris now ist bcus they DONT want an Asian car, they want an Italian car

If F does embrace Asian style it may be hurting its sales in Asia


As an Asian American, I strongly agree with above. But that's me. I bought a Ferrari because I want an Italian car.
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  #28  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:37 PM
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Smile market

dear friends
I believe that China is only a market
I think there is not a producer of luxury goods that can base his design to the taste of the Chinese, if the ferrari sells lots of cars in China is simply because the Chinese want the ferrari, since there is a "Chinese taste" ?
What do the Chinese know about the "soul" of a Ferrari or a Breguet watch or a pair of Churchs?
design changes over the years and is valued by those who live in the current years, for us all a ferrari 250 gto is a masterpiece, probably the majority of young people today is just old crap and ugly.
I personally love a Ferrari that has a "quid" of classical. 360 is the best example in my opinion,
looking at the sideline of the 458 I think I see the sinuous rounded lines of classical models but obviously it's design evolved.
regards
Salvatore Murgo
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  #29  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:32 PM
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Ferrari is now a modern car manufaturing company, away from being simply a boutique car maker, simple as that.....intact with all the financial obligations and compromises, market demand over design, administrative and shareholder demands also
The time has passed from Ferrari being a F1 racing company first, auto maker second IMO
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  #30  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by G. Pepper View Post
... Not until the 355 did Ferrari get its mojo back with mid engine designs, and the 360 is an immortal classic of design purity, IMO. It's a perfect combination of retro and modern to me.

Cheers,

George
I agree with you the 355 was a better design than the TR. It's probably as close to a timeless design as anything Ferrari did after 1990. But I'm of totally the opposite view on the 360/F430 -- I'd say it marked a departure from Italian design and an embrace of Asian and some American ingredients. The 458 is better, but again there are hints of Lexus LFA in the front end especially.

The 355 looks to be hunkered over its wheels and mechanicals, while the 360 is more an extruded piece of pasta that goes on a few feet longer than it might have. Add some 308/328 tail lights and a horse so people know it's not a Corvette and you're done. The dramatic planes and lines of the 246, 308/328, Boxer and 355 are largely gone in favor of generic curves and a sort of cross-eyed front end.

The 360 was the model most reponsible for my waning interest in modern Ferraris -- kind of an inflection point where they became more like other cars and less exotic than they had been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garnet View Post
Ferrari is now a modern car manufaturing company, away from being simply a boutique car maker, simple as that.....intact with all the financial obligations and compromises, market demand over design, administrative and shareholder demands also
The time has passed from Ferrari being a F1 racing company first, auto maker second IMO
Agreed. They have an enviable brand name, and their advantage in F1 isn't what it once was. Makes sense that they serve markets that can afford European-branded status symbols.
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  #31  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullfighter View Post
I agree with you the 355 was a better design than the TR. It's probably as close to a timeless design as anything Ferrari did after 1990. But I'm of totally the opposite view on the 360/F430 -- I'd say it marked a departure from Italian design and an embrace of Asian and some American ingredients. The 458 is better, but again there are hints of Lexus LFA in the front end especially.

The 355 looks to be hunkered over its wheels and mechanicals, while the 360 is more an extruded piece of pasta that goes on a few feet longer than it might have. Add some 308/328 tail lights and a horse so people know it's not a Corvette and you're done. The dramatic planes and lines of the 246, 308/328, Boxer and 355 are largely gone in favor of generic curves and a sort of cross-eyed front end.

The 360 was the model most reponsible for my waning interest in modern Ferraris -- kind of an inflection point where they became more like other cars and less exotic than they had been.



Agreed. They have an enviable brand name, and their advantage in F1 isn't what it once was. Makes sense that they serve markets that can afford European-branded status symbols.
Huh. Just goes to show how subjective perceptions of beauty are. For me, the 360 is a retro-modern take on the Dino, and the 355 and 430 are not as pretty. As for the 458, I just despise the whole LED headlight treatment. I think that will look like crap in 25 years. Think 80's square headlights.

My next Ferrari will be a 360, no doubt about it.

Cheers,

George
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  #32  
Old 04-16-2012, 10:34 AM
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Hey - I am with George.

The 360 harkens back to the greeats like the Dino, the 275 GTB, and especially the 250 LM.

I rate the small Ferraris as follows:

The 246 Dino - especially with the headlight covers - was just about perfect.

The Dino GT4 (Bertone) was a completely odd progression, but not terrible for what it was.

The 308 was an excellent design. Taut - flowing lines. Agtressive but tasteful.

The 328 was not quite as good as the 308, but still nice.

The 348 took a step in the wrong direction. Strakes - bad. Taillights - bad. Still, though, very passable.

The 355 moved back in the right direction. Very pretty car, but maybe a bit too squat, too muscualr. Missing the flowing lines of the 308 for sure. It was the step leading to the greatness of the 360.

The 360 combines the flowing lines of the 308s with the muscualr stance of the 355, plus it brought back the glass covered lights. It also is virtually void of any adornments...the shape says what there is to say. A 250 LM you can afford and actually drive around on the streets - purrfect.

It is almost like after Ferrari did the 360 they had no further logical step to make in the sequence...they had hit it just right. so, they did somethign different with the 430 - made it much more fussy with the odd shaped lights, projecting tail lights, strange grills, asymetric cut lines. And, for me, that was the wroing turn - the turn to asian-like design.

As for the 458, I haven't decided yet. Sometimes I see one from a certain angle and it looks great...sometimes from another angle the same car looks wrong. I say it is too busy and fussy, but the themes are quite good. It is like they put too much on the plate. Design - sensory overload.

In the end - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But certain thigs simply 'look right' to most people. I belive the 360 to be one of those things. That's why I bought one - it looks right to me.
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2012, 01:14 AM
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Ferrari Design Overtones: Going, Going, Gone Asian? Part 3

from:
http://chadglass.blogspot.com/2012/0...ing-going.html

excerpt:
The sun does rise in the East and has been shining on Ferrari for years. In following suit with Aston Martin's Dragon 88 and Rolls Royce's Phantom Year of the Dragon edition, Ferrari, in a well-intended Maoist lockstep, steps up its game in a bid to further win over the burgeoning Asian market, namely with the cash-rife Chinese. After 20 successful years of sales in China (beginning with the 348 TS), Ferrari honors this milestone with 20 special editions of it's latest mid-engined flagship 458 Italia.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2012, 02:05 AM
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The most beautiful car Lamborghini ever did was the Muira.
+ infinity!!!!.......Mark
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