F12 gearbox vs TDF/812

Good question however if i'm not mistaken it's going to be the TCU and not the ECU

 

Not familiar with its TCU but not likely a direct swap can be made because the gearing is physically different between the three which may alter the way in which the clutches need to be programmed in all circumstances. However, I don't see why the F12B TCU could not be specifically altered to different clutch timing but its likely a trade off with reliability and drivability. When you decrease switching time between clutches it would seem you increase overlap which would increase heat and wear and give more abrupt switching all other things being equal. I like to keep those things stock as the designers intended.

 

The physics (mechanical and electronic/software) are the same between the gearboxes (or, best I know, between the F12 and TDF, I'd assume so re the 812).

The F12 and TDF have different ratios, and again, I'd presume the same limitations (torque loads). Someone can correct me, but I believe the 430 vs. Scuderia gearbox (F1 vs. "superfast") did have some actual hardware differences in how it actuated; less sure about the Getrag DCT.

The software would be the primary difference, which is primarily TCU-driven, but the TCU also has to "mate" with the engine ECU among others in the car.

In driving the TDF, I'm not sure I can detect the few milliseconds the gearbox shifts more quickly than the F12, but the engine itself revs quickly and is matched perfectly to the gearbox settings. Candidly it's less abrupt than our 458 and Speciale, which would give you a "gearbox kick".....the TDF gives you an engine kick and that is detectable

I would imagine the challenge of trying to change up the F12's settings would be in making sure you have all the settings aligned right (again, assuming no internals are changed).

 

Just to point out the reality when dealing with very fine measurements.

Although 20% sounds like a big difference, with small very metrics it actually may not be very noticeable.

For example, can you tell the difference between a small spot measuring 200 microns and one which measures 240 microns?

You probably would need a magnifying glass to even see the spot.

 

I am not sure where these improvements are with a dual-clutch gearbox, because in most cases (hopefully) the "gearchange" is only a switch between the two clutches, the actual gearbox change being performed on the un-clutched shaft...

 

FYI most new TCUs/ECUs need a VIN and factory program which is the same process you described as this is a common practice not unique to Ferrari. Unless, of course, you can find a used one on the Internet or one from a junk yard and start from there (how would you program it?) Is it really of any practical concern though? We're talking a few thousands of a second difference and none on multiple shifts.

 

Has anyone else experienced jerky downshifts with the F12? My car is brand new, 2017 last F12 on sale and I am honestly disappointed in the smoothness of the downshifts in Manual mode.

 

Yes, they are not the best. As a point of comparison I offer the GT3 RS DCT. Especially in the "sporty shift" mode, the downshifts on that car are brutal in terms of abruptness and sound -- but somehow otherwise seem smoother in every way than the F12's. The DCT, as good as it was when the F12 was introduced, is definitely a place for improvement. I can't comment on how well the 812 or tdf addressed this. It's not really Ferrari's fault, the tech just moved on quite a bit in the few short years since the F12 was introduced.

 

I think Ferrari is very protective over their software etc. It's just as the others said very well above- its all interactive. So if you change one variable, likely others are affected. I would leave well enough alone on this one. I have found the 3-2 downshift, if you are in moderate, in-town, driving, it can sometimes be a little bit of a brutal shift. But my experience, granted its with a 2017 car, is the shifts are good! Especially in race mode! Ferrari is really the master of dialing in all these modes, so you might want to play with different settings to see what you like. There is always room for improvement. I also agree with the comment that these things already shift so fast, so while a big % might look like a huge improvement, it might not be quite as noticeable as the numbers would make you think. If you want a real eye opener, go drive a 599 GTBF1 and then go drive your F12... Massive difference (for the better).

 

Certainly so - the 599 and F430 have a conventional manual box that's "robotized" while the 458 and F12 made the move to DCT, which is another dimension (it's not about gradual improvement, it's a completely different design).

 

It's actually likely to be compatible and a literal plug and play. Hell, both engines and gearboxes might be as well, the chassis is the same, so mounting points will be the same, the internals are different, but the engine case is the same.
A TCU swap (there are very little TCU tuners, unfortunately), should do the trick.

 

I found this old thread and I wonder if anyone knows more about this 5 years later? As it sounds very interesting.