Patek 5970

5970 and 5270 discussion here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=255769

 

It's the one collectors now love the most. It had a fairly limited run but has the bigger case and many prefer the tach on the dial along with the traditional dial display. I love the 5270 but this one has gotten wrecked in the secondary market. 5970's can be had for less than the list of a 5270 and should hold their value fairly well. Whether you choose a g,p, or j they all look great. Good luck.

 

I prefer the 5970 vs. the 5270. What about the 3970?

 

More power to ya, but I'd rather have a Stradale

 

As an investment, you have to really careful. I have in this for about 28 years. Never bought a Patek for an investment. They can all move around and nothing is certain.
Look at the price of the 5960. when it came out at about $65,000, it shot up to $95,000 now I see them on and off for about $59-63,000. So, no money really lost if you bought at the starting price.

But Patek does have the largest auction numbers of any maker in the world. The 3939 came out a few years back. How many people bought it a $250,000 just to have one to wear once or twice a year. At a quarter of a million you have a ton of choices of things to collect. Why not buy the purple Ferrari Dino that was for sale in the $289,000 price to see if it will go up, or maybe pop and drop back into the $180,000. Fine if you like it, but if you bought it for an investment you would be really upset to take a $100,000 loss, but if it goes up to $500,000. But, we don't know if the Dino will to a magic jump. But the patek 3939, just sold last spring for $800,000 and a another version of it went for $1.1Million.
Patek watches you need to really research the market, and make sure you know the numbers of watches produced and various dials, colors, If there are more than 40 of them made, chances are slim that in 2 years it will be any big jumps. Just buy it wear it for at least 10 years, you have to think long term. In 2004 you did not. But the 150T that was put out by Patek for $24,000 , shot up in a year to $90,000 , but now is back down in the $50,000 so that was not a bad deal at all. So there can be big jumps on a really hot NEW Patek, but it has to be one nobody can get, and they all want, then you have to flip it. Just like anything you want to make money on depends on what you buy at and what you sell at.
I like the 5970, and is a clean classic watch, should be stable, but may be like the Dino, it may stall at it's current price for 2 years. And, and a new watch could out do it in the next two years. Any Patek under $200,000 would , in my opinion, would be risky for an "Good " investment, you can enjoy it and have a chance to make a few thousand.

 

The Patek's I have are worn all the time. I figure if I can break even on it in 5 years it will all be fine. As, it is hard to find the end collector, and if you trade them you take a beating.
But if I had to buy a watch for investment it would be PATEK PHILIPPE.

 

5970 in my opinion is one of the nicest watch produced in the last decade or so.

Everything about it is well balanced, from size to dial's design.

The only things purists find annoying about a watch in that price bracket is the Lemania based mouvement.

This was resolved with the 5270 featuring his own PP mouvement.

Is that going to be a good investment? Probably, but I don't really know...the thing I know is that even if prices are going to drop I will be so happy with mine as I'm planning to keep it forever and will probably add one in Platinum to my collection.

Platinum is the rarest of the 4 produced so if you are looking at a mere investment that one will be the one to get, followed by the white gold.

Yellow gold one is the one that was produced in the highest number hence prices are usually lower for these.

Here a picture of mine in very good company!
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That would be a x2, on that one.

I take it that's your car also?

 

Wow - an uber Patek and a Huayra. Stunning combo Max, enjoy!

Morry

 

Unfortunately not, it's Pagani's own demo car.

I was there few days ago for a factory tour and to see some of the Zonda they have there as it's a car I keep looking at and I'll may buy in the near future!
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F40's yours

I really love that watch, but I think that's just cause I know I can't have it

 

Max, LOVE that photo of the 5970 and the Pagani--Sweet!

To answer the OP's question, I think prices for the 5970 over the next couple of years to stay relatively flat subject to the economy. I don't see the watch falling in value--prices rose sharply while in production and for a period thereafter, and then flattened out where it has remained for some time. To my knowledge it always stayed at or above MSRP even through some pretty tough economic times. And I think it is sure to rise steadily (although perhaps slowly) in the future because it ends an era for Patek, and in a sense, an era in watchmaking, which in my view makes it very collectable.

In "the good old days", all of Patek's watches, as with the other great houses, manufactured watches using ebaches from dedicated movement manufacturers (you mentioned the Daytona--you may recall that prior to the current Rolex there was the Daytona with the Zenith movement or "ebache"). The 5970's predecessors like the 1518 and 2499, which sell for mega $ all start with ebaches made elsewhere. There is a whole history of Swiss watchmaking that explains the dynamic and it makes for interesting reading. And as for the 5970, the Lemania ebache has an entire history all of its own (including going to the moon in the Omega Speedmaster). But unlike the Speedmaster's movement, Patek deconstucted the movement, revised, reworked and ultimately rebuilt it. It was a time consuming process, but that was how fine watches were made.

Consolidation in the industry (driven by low sales due to quartz competition) meant watch manufactures merging with movement manufacturers, and eventually luxury watch competitors began marketing their watches with "in-house" movements as if that that mere fact made them better--but it apparently worked. Patek defended the use of the Lemania saying if they were to build a movement from the ground up it would look like the Patek Lemania so why bother. But the marketing pressure combined with the fact that Breguet bought Lemania and was refusing to sell movements to Patek drove Patek to get with the times--and eventually created its own movement that Patek says has the added benefit (to Patek) of taking less time, and therefore less cost, to make.

To be sure, the new Patek movement is technologically more advanced. But you are sure to see that movement in Pateks for a long long time as they recoup their R&D costs--but you will never see another Patek with a Lemania (or non-Patek) ebache. This being a Ferrari forum please excuse the analogy, but I liken it to the Porsche oil-cooled 911, to its air-cooled successor. The end of the oil-cooled 911 was the end of an era. German engineering was supplemented if not replaced by Japanese manufacturing techniques. Prices of pristine oil-cooled 911's have stayed strong while more mass-produced air-cooled models drop like rocks.

These days I might prefer the new 911 to one of those old oil-cooled cars. Unlike cars though, watches "just" tell time. All the technological advances do nothing that change things much for the end user. And in my view you buy one of these watches, whether it be the 5970 or the 5270, at least in part because of its historical context (--and in the case of the 5970 because it has to be one of the best looking watches Patek has ever made). So for my dime its all about the 5970 (and I own one).

Incidentially, the 3970 (immediate predecessor to the 5970) shares the same history as the 5970 so all of the same story applies (I use to own one of those too). It is considerably cheaper and arguably a very good buy--but is smaller and arguably not as good looking (and therefore its cheaper).

FWIW, I also think there is a decent chance that Patek will give the 5270, which has seen a lot of price resistance and can easily be purchased well below MSRP--a relatively short (4-5 year) run. If this is true, it might make it the better "investment" at least in the short run (the 5970 was a 4-5 year run too but that short-term discontinuation hysteria is now gone). I kind of think that unlike before, these watches will rotate with some frequency such that it will make them all of the Patek-movement watches less attractive long term.

Of course, time could prove me to be entirely full of BS.

On a last note, the 5970 and 5270 currently sell for about the same price. Make of that what you will.

For me, I am happy to own the 5970 and plan to make it my heirloom watch. Lucky kid.

 

great looking watches but if i could afford any watch i wanted and was looking at Patek the 5070 would be on my list.

 

Please tell where I can buy a 5270 for 5970 $$?

Thank you,

 

Patek currently offers the 5270 only in white gold. White gold is indicated by the letter "G" after the reference number.

As I write this, the best price offered on eBay is for a new 5270G is for $136,500 or best offer. The best price offered for the 5970G mint/used is $132,950. Similarly Chrono24 best price listed for a Patek 5270G is $136,500, and $139,995 for a used/mint Patek 5970G.

These are all grey market dealers. You will find they provide a market for authorized dealers to advertise without offending their relationships with the manufacturer. Or you can quietly ask your dealer. Of course not all will do it, hoping for a whale, but many certainly will. It is well known among those who pay attention to these things that the 5270 has been a slow mover (not a rejection of the watch I think, but rather because of the high MSRP) and they are moving at these kind of discounts.

I hope this helps.

 

Very nice!
I agree go with the platinum. You will be impressed with the heft and it has a evergreen style which will always be appreciated.

 

Hi Chet

I can be of help , lots of us references.

Regards
Fomar

 

Mmmm, sure. Totally anonymous new user suggesting he can help in the purchase of a $130,000 watch. What can go wrong?

 

spoke to a sothebys guy last weekend - 5970g prices are apparently 150 to 180 and 5970p prices are close to 200 - 5270s can be had for 130ks

 

A good place to check: chrono24.com

 

There was a 5270g listed on TZ for 109.5 recently!