dont know where to put this thread exactly, but might as well start it here and maybe the mods can move it if need be. my father and i took part in the hollywood wheels auction (we did not register in time for either rm or gooding because we had no plans to buy cars before the fire). so, i can give you an account of the hollywood auction, me on line, and my father actually there. my overview of the 2 day event was that the dynamic of the car market has changed. as some of us have been discussing elsewhere, the prospect of better times ahead for business has sucked away spare dollars from cars to be invested in businesses, investments, etc. either that, or the bad weather forecast for tomorrow kept the money away....which i doubt. friday was a porsche only day, and saturday was everything else. about 150 cars in total i guess. friday was somewhat better attended and bid, but nevertheless, i think their sale/pass rate was less than 50%, and today it was deplorable at 25 out of 80. i think this low rate was due to a combination of sellers being unrealistic and thinking it was still 2016, some of the offerings being less than top notch, and not enough money in the room. of the cars that sold, it was a combination of some very fine machinery being sought after by people there specifically for that - sometimes for the same car (lucky sellers), and some crazy prices achieved for cars that i was surprised about ($19.5k for a '80 rubber bumper mgb??? ). we bought the brown '77 930 on friday for 130k, and the red '61 series flat floor xke for $145k. we might have bought one of the 280sl's but they went for high prices and still didnt get past the reserve ! many of the top cars reached reasonable prices, like $1.1 mil for the '91 euro f40, but the reserve was higher - so for specific and good cars there were buyers, but no luck. can anybody tell us about the other auctions?
Folks in the 308 Market sticky thread are discussing this issue right now and would also like to hear your play-by-play comments.
I have seen this hollywood wheels auction the last 3 years, nothing sells so this is the norm for this auction. Gooding, Bonhams, and RM are better barometers of the car market
The Caitlyn Jenner GT3 RS 3.8. Just curious....was that a bit light? I thought they sold for more. And a charity for our times. Although I cannot imagine the macho mostly male car collectors getting behind that so to speak.
RM Sotheby's Results $70.9M and 90% sell through rate Results - Amelia Island 2017 | Classic Car Auctions | RM Sotheby's Gooding & Co. Results $30.5M Realized | Gooding & Company Bonhams Bonhams : The Amelia Island Auction No Elvis impersonators at any of these auctions I'm guessing... BHW
The Mazda 767B is a pretty cool car... $5.7 million for a 911 GT1, $750k for a 4.0 RS, and $300k+ for a regular 993 Turbo. Porsche guys still throwing crazy money around...Same for the BMW guys with the Z8 and M3 prices... The GT1 was for sale for $1.95 million back in late 2011...had 7,178kms then and 7,910 now. Sad...
I was at gooding and later the porsche auction at Hollywood auctions, and saw the dismal Hollywood auction the next day. I was really unimpressed, and had heard a dealer say the F40 price was not real. As he thought it was the worst one he had ever seen.So I don't know about auctions, just be very, very careful. Goodings had great things, RM, but I did not see Bonhams.
hollywood was definitely a mixed bag. but some gems amongst the dreck. the mercedes 280se cabrio looked good. the red 280sl was perfect.
you are more right than i gave you credit for. we have had a very mixed experience with hollywood wheels. i cannot say much due to legal restrictions, but i wont be buying even a matchbox car from MIKE FLYNN ever again.
Probably goes without saying that the term "buyer beware" applies to these auctions as much as anything these days. We see this in particular when there is a spike in the market. And, even though things have been leveling off the past couple of years, the market is still pretty strong and these auctions play this up on consigners promising record level selling prices and then hype up the bidders usually with "VIP access" and plenty of alcohol. The problem is when the market is strong people are convinced by the auction companies that they'll bring premium plus price levels for their particular car even though these cars are no where near the condition of those making the premium prices. The market is then flooded with junk that not even local used car dealers would touch and the cars are then flushed through the bottom end of the auction market. It's up to the buyers to do their due diligence though. Either thoroughly inspect the car(s) personally at the pre-auction viewings or have an expert eye go all through them and review any documentation before the car goes across the block. And, the Elvis impersonator auctioneer story is absolutely true. A few years ago, can't remember exactly what year, I attended one of these auctions in West Palm Beach with some friends, it was something to do one day so we went. On arriving, the quality of the cars on display was akin to that of a used car lot on US41 and then they had this Elvis guy doing the auctioneering. It was amusing at first as sort of a novelty but that quickly wore off as it was obvious this guy had no clue what he was doing as no-sale after no-sale went across the stage. The whole thing came across as a used car lot gimmick. BHW
Well, you gotta figure that when these auctions are putting upwards of 1,000 across the blocks at these events not all of them are going to be pearls. We checked out a recent auction in SoFla where likely 1,000+ cars were consigned including a rather large amount of Porsches and memorabilia from a collector spread over four days. The sheer numbers of cars is impressive of course but looking at the cars closely, there wasn't anything all that special and most of them had pretty high mileage and it just comes off as potential buyers inheriting someone else's problem(s). When it comes to the amount of cars these auction companies are able to consign for particular events, you have to wonder how they do it. It takes a huge effort to put these auctions together and when you see what they spend on pre-event publicity, producing these incredibly expensive to make print catalogues, etc. you're really buying the hype more than the cars. The two very different types of auctions usually sets things apart too. The tent auctions where the emphasis is on volume over quality with the rat-a-tat-tat auctioneering babbling incoherent nonsense, I can only take about ten minutes of that stuff before getting a headache. The English style auctions (RM-Sotheby's, Gooding & Co and Bonhams) are the real big three and where the markets are really set and thoroughly enjoyable to attend. Hope you're able to work out your issue(s) with HW. Again, there are auctions and then there are AUCTIONS! BHW
i am well aware of the differences having been to several of each version. but, among the mass of lots in the mecum and hw, there are some real and good opportunities. so it is a matter of diligence and patience. our issues with hw are many...car quality is only relevant in 1 instance, the other issues are just a frustrating lack of follow through on small things.
