What is a super car?

I guess it's all in your personal opinion. Power numbers aren't everything, just like engine sizes. Too me, exclusivity is part of it, but not everything. The four Ferrari's, absolutely. Pagani, Koenigsegg for sure. But I think stats fall into it as well. It should be the fastest of it's time, over 200 for sure now. Under 3.5 to 60, have brakes to match. I don't think the engine has to be in the back. The C6 ZR1 had super car performance when it came out, and still does. The GT absolutely is to me. Yeah it's only a V8 from Ford, but so where the early Koenigsegg's.

In the end I don't think there is a real answer. A 458 will obliterate a 288 GTO on the track. Or a Miura, but it's a base car now. It's all subjective.

 

Supercar lineage (for me):

Miura
Countach
Testarossa
288 GTO
F40
959
Diablo
EB110
XJ220
F1
F50
Carrera GT
Enzo
Veyron
918
P1
LaF

Purposeful omissions:

Saleen (ford motor)
AM One77 (too GT)
Merc/Mclaren SLR (Too heavy/GT etc)
Pagani Zonda/Huayra (Merc Motor)
Anything Lambo has made since the Diablo - myriad reasons
MB CLK GTR and Porsche 911 GT1 (these are race cars, not street cars, if you consider them supercars you also have to consider all of the Ferrari GT racers, Cobras and Ford GT40's etc etc, but they're all race cars)

Struggling with the Koenigsegg, it belongs by all objective criteria I can come up with but I just don't feel it.

 

I posted this on another forum in response to the question "What Makes A Car Exotic?"

 

The F1 is (BMW Motor), but the Paganis aren't?

 

That's the issue, the term has a different meaning everyone. So you'll never have a real consensus.
For me-

Countach
288 GTO
959
F40
Diablo ( especially the SV or Jota)
CLK GTR
F50
F1
Any Pagani
Any Koenigsegg
Gumpert ( an ugly one)
XJ220
911 GT2
Veyron
Enzo
Carrera GT
Ford GT
Viper ACR
ZR1
918
599 GTO
La Ferrari
P1
Reventon


I'm sure I left a few out...

 

Hah! I always chuckle when people praise the F1, but dismiss the Pagani's because of the Mercedes-Benz engines...

 

Yes, those 4 LeMans wins & complete destruction of Ferrari at LeMans forever makes the GT40s & GTs highly questionable LOL

 

I even said it doesn't all make sense, even to me . At least the bmw in the f1 was a bespoke motor designed specifically and only for the f1.

The other factor is that the f1 was far beyond other cars performance wise when it came out, not so for the Paganis.

 

The engines of Zonda and Huayra are also bespoke just for those cars.

 

I thought they were production v12's modified for Pagani, unlike the bmw unit that was only used in the f1 and for racing with no production car variant.

 

I think you are partially right. I did some "internet research" and it seems that when the first debuted in 1999 it had a Mercedes-Benz 6.0 V12. There were only a handful cars built with this engine (in fact so few cars that Pagani has been trying to buy back the very first cars delivered), and shortly after the Zonda S (7.0) was launched, and it was tuned for Pagani by AMG. This engine was further modified by AMG in the Zonda S 7.3, Zonda F and so one (getting more and more bespoke parts along the way, as Koenigsegg also did during its first years).

It seems that the true, official "bespoke for Pagani" AMG designed engine arrived in the Huayra.

Anyway, this doesn't bother me at all. Anyone saying that Paganis are not supercars are having some definition issues that I just can't agree with. The rest of the car is as bespoke as it gets.

Ps. Look at how pale a Lamborghini looks next to a Zonda (on one of the attached pictures).
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Pagani 760RS is my # 1
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That's a Zonda R, this is a 760RS. My dream is to buy a stock Zonda S 7.3 and take it to Pagani do add personal touches to make it looks like my dream Zonda...
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I always thought that a " Supercar " was a a car that could do 200 mph right off the show room floor.

I don't know when the word " Supercar " was coined but there was a time when very few cars could make that claim.
So many cars could come close to that 200 mph number but at the time only a few could hence the term " Supercar ".

I'm still fine with that simple criteria.

Any production car that can do 200 mph off the show room floor is a Supercar.

Today, with so many cars able to do 200 mph + it is no longer the superlative.

 

The term was coined when only race cars could do 200mph. IMO, supercars existed long before the term did, and long before 200mph road cars were even a dream.

The Stutz Bearcat of 100 years ago was a race car for the road with a tiny trunk (literally a box bolted to the chassis) and lights, the F40 of its day, certainly a Supercar.

The Mercedes Benz 300SL Gullwing was a Supercar in 1955.

The Ferrari 250GT LWB Berlinetta "Tour De France" was a Supercar.

The car that coined the term, the Lamborghini Miura, didn't have a hope in hell of reaching 200mph.

 

+1

 

You write from the perspective of a 20 year old... 200 mph on a steet car is a fairly new occurrence. It's not a valid factor; should not be part of the definition.

There were actually 'Supercars' long before you were born. Lots of them.

 

A supercar is a performance car of the highest level amongst its peers. It must have exceptional performance and styling for its time. When I think to the origin of the term, the F40 always comes to mind as the first true embodiment.

 

I'm older than a 250 GTO


The first I heard the term " Supercar " was around the era of the Countach and I remember how rare it was at that time, mid 80s to early 90s, for a street car to break the 200 mph and any one that could would be a supercar. I don't know which was first. Perhaps it was the F40.

I'm not saying that is thee definition of supercar. I'm just saying what supercar has meant to me.

 

Of all of the "supercars" I've seen in person (288, F40, F50, Enzo, FXX, MC12, Veyron, S7, Aventador, Murcie, Diablo, Countach, Carrera GT, 911 Gt1, XJ220, Mclaren F1, BMW M1, etc), the Mercedes CLK-GTR looks the absolute most extreme. Even though it was in silver the two different chassis I saw...the proportions are wild. The XJ220 is in a distant second. The other cars don't look as extreme imo. Pictures don't do the CLK GTR justice.

 

No kidding. The M120 is one of the greatest motors ever made. My favorite engine by far.

 

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Well here it is in '71 and referring to muscle cars. I guess all it ever really means is a car that is super! I had a '67 Super Sport Camaro once.

 

Here is the correct answer..

Super cars:
- Ferrari LaFerrari
- McLaren P1
- Porsche 918 Spyder
- Koenigsegg Agera R
- Pagani Huayra

Exotic cars:
- Ferrari 458, Ferrari F12
- McLaren 12C
- Porsche 911 Turbo S
- Aston Martin Vanquish

Sports cars:
- Corvette C7
- Dodge Viper
- Porsche 911 Carrera

Some cars are in between... Lamborghini Aventador could be Super or Exotic... Audi R8 could be Exotic or Sports

Cars get their classification when they're new. A Ferrari F40 is a super car because it was when it first came out.