VW Diesel emissions fraud.

Every manufacturer has been doing this since smog regulation started. It is just that with the state of the art of technology it can be much more narrowly focused than it could before. Every regulation has had a set of parameters surrounding its measurement test and every car manufacturer has tailored their system to pass that specific "TEST". What did the EPA expect? And, in reality what else can you do? If outside the test parameters there is a reduction, great, that is what is hoped but in any event that is up to those that specify the test parameters and the equipment used. In this case that is the EPA. They have no one but themselves to blame.

 

It is not all in the name of the junk science of global warming. If you were alive in the mid and late 60's and not living in a 3rd world country with no cars you would understand that. Auto sourced pollution was a very big and very real problem and our world would be a very different place had something not been done.

If you want to more correctly argue that we need to have a sensible conversation on the diminishing returns of continuing on this path, and the lunacy that we can just use plug in cars as a replacement, that is a very different thing.

Or, would you like to live with air quality like Beijing?

 

As a diesel VW owner I could care less. I still get great gas mileage. I am sure most manufacturers are doing similar things

 

This is a huge deal for VW and will take a huge bite out of the company. The fines could be astronomical (more for each car sold than they actually sold the car for).

 

VW has already admitted guilt.....what happens next will be interesting

 

18 billion in fines... OUCH

 

IMHO this may not end up a simple case of Mea Culpa. From what I understand, there is significant evidence that someone at VW was cleverly defrauding customers and the EPA alike. I'm actually slightly surprised they apparently got away with it for as long as they have been. Setting aside how everyone feels about the actual environmental impact of VW diesels , and whether or not they like their VWs or not, the cars themselves will likely suffer a blow to resale value for just being associated with any coming recall.

The real "satisfaction" test will be to see how well the car performs, and how sporty it remains, when all the emissions equipment is hardwired to 100% on, all the time.

 

I'm still taking this with a grain of salt...

Don't some states (FL, NY, and CA come to mind) hook up a machine to the exhaust pipes of the cars in their states to see what comes out of the tailpipe? Seems like they would have discovered this before now...

 

I think the VW emissions computer was programmed to understand, or at least guess, when it was on a test system. "If no input from steering wheel and still accelerating, then switch emissions equipment to full-on" kind of stuff. Other indicators may be things like "No one in driver seat", "OBD plugged in", and more. Actually straightforward, and quite clever.

 

The EPA's notice to Volkswagen charges that they went way beyond good-faith optimizing for the test cycle. The ECU detects that it's on a dyno and switches to a completely different mode that reduces NOx emissions by 10x to 40x. In the notice, EPA cites all the specific rules being broken:

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf

As for failing individual smog tests, nobody to my knowledge performs tailpipe tests on diesels.

That said, the discrepancy was discovered years ago. Apparently CARB and the EPA contacted Volkswagen about it and were simply lied to. Yesterday, VW came pretty close to admitting guilt in a press release:

STATEMENT OF PROF. DR. MARTIN WINTERKORN, CEO OF VOLKSWAGEN AG : Volkswagen US Media Newsroom

Of course, while this was all going on the EPA continued to oppose adding to the godawful DMCA an exception for engine-management firmware, which would have made it easier to detect this sort of subterfuge.

 

Unbelievably stupid...

While optimizing the performance to maximize how the car works over the cycle, this was basically shutting off emission controls at all other times. And yes your car gets great mileage, that's because it is making huge nitrogen oxide emissions and these aren't the kind of emissions that cause "global warming", Nitrogen oxide emissions are what causes smog and poor air quality so it is a big deal.

Like I said doing this was stupid beyond imagination and VW will pay billions for doing it.

 

Actually, "defeat devices" such as this are specifically prohibited:

 

Thanks for the link to the EPA press release and the excellent history of the issue. I hadn't had either of those until now.

(Another more-than-casually interested observer here!)

 

Just a friendly reminder, P&R is not permitted out side the P&R forum. There is a thread in that forum discussing this topic if you want to talk your discussion in that direction. Thanks.

 

As other countries look into this, other manufacturers will also be looked into.

I wonder if one of the big car co. will buy a stake into VW.

 

You gotta be kidding yourself if you think that VW is the only one doing it. The ECU hardware and software is mostly the same on all big OEMs. So they all have the chance to implement cycle beating strategies similar to that.

The real Pepsi challenge would be to take a couple of top selling cars, set them up with emission testing equipement, then drive around on real world streets and check the emissions. You would be surprised...or not.

 

I literally just bought a 2015 TDI wagon last month and love the car. Great performance and economy. It will be interesting to see if the re-call impacts performance.

Not sure if this will make my car more valuable or less if its the last of the VW TDI's

 

VW’s Grand Deception

The Greenies get stung,, big time



Yes, indeedy, I remember only a few weeks ago VW was bragging about they “own” the diesel car market in the U.S., selling far more cars than other automakers.

And in recent years other automakers begrudgingly offered diesels, thinking “If VW can do it, so must we.”

Now we come to find out that, for years, VW has been slipping software into their diesel powered cars, like the Jetta, that will change the emissions only when it is being emissions tested. Then, when back out on the road, it will throw off that setting and go back to polluting as much as 30 to 40 times what the machine recorded back in the testing booth. Not only that, they are getting lot worse mileage than they were claiming.

The EPA has reacted almost violently, there is talk of VW being fined as much as $13,000 for each and every car that they fitted with this trick device, and we’re talking millions of cars. That is not including the restitution that they will have to pay back buyers of cars who feel they were defrauded, buying a car they believed was clean when it isn’t.

The device was discovered by an independent non-profit group that was testing cars in a SE state, and when two VWs got different emissions out on the highway than they did in the lab, they were puzzled. They had not started out trying to uncover or even suspecting a criminal conspiracy, they just wanted to test emissions to see how cars being sold now are doing. Then other groups wanted in on the data, and pretty soon they discovered that VW diesels were not as clean as VW was saying.

The consequences for VW will rattle the company down to its foundation, because now many European countries are looking at the VWs sold new in their countries to see if they too also have software that fakes the emissions only during testing.

As a former sufferer of both bronchitis and pneumonia, I am particularly incensed that those who have those maladies now have to suffer from increased bad air when there is a VW diesel around, yet there were still TV commercials only weeks ago touting “clean” VW diesels.

CRIMINAL PENALTIES

Why do these criminal acts when perpetrated by automakers always result in a slap on the wrist, a fine or two, a recall or two but the executives who approved these evasive manuvers never get personally charged with criminal negligence, fined personally and even sent to jail? The GM executives who allowed the keys to fall out of GM cars for over a dozen years still got their million dollar plus bonuses and pensions. None of them went to jail but over 100 innocent people died when the keys fell out of the ignition, the car lost its brakes and steering and went out of control.

GM paid a $90 million penalty but there was no trial, no charges of complicity to evade their responsibilities.

Now as far as the diesels, you can’t point to actual victims but I say in European countries, if they find out the same evasive tactics were used, there are many more victims , especially those with diseases that inhibit normal breathing. Ironically, the European “greenies” seemed to me to be a powerful lobbying group and now they are finding that they have been betrayed by Europe’s largest automakers outright lying to them.

When I think of all the media that portrayed VW diesels as “clean” I am embarrassed for them. Right in LA there is a radio station (KPFK) that has a weekly car show, run by Art Gould and Dave Kunz, that some months ago interviewed a VW engineer on clean diesels. I think the hosts of their show and any other show that touted the clean diesels now should own up to their complicity in broadcasting mis-represented products and now broadcast an apology to their listeners. Think of how many of their listeners passed up a Prius to get a diesel VW and now find out their car is a rolling lie on four wheels.

The solution? First to fine VW a huge amount, in the billions. Secondly to pass a law where executives who approve such shenanigans should be criminally libel for prosecution. Third, to have those convicted serve jail time. It isn’t until there is a wing of a prison in the U.S. or Europe with former auto executives making a $1 a day that the auto industry will imbue in their executives the level of responsibility they owe the public. I also think if certain VW officials can be pinpointed toward being in on the conspiracy, congress should pass a law revoking their US visas. Permanently. Why? Because they conspired to evade U.S. law and made a product that was a gross polluter. They conspired to harm the residents of the U.S. and shouldn't be allowed to continue to come here and do business.

On my radio show I have advocated focusing the blame for such mistakes on engineers, but the auto industry veteran engineer on the show says “No—it’s the executives who approved it,” when speaking of flaws like the GM key falling out. With VW, it’s the executives who approved it, but the engineers who developed the device that allowed VW to promulgate this Big Lie.

I think the ecology lobby should be the angriest. They always suspected diesels were bad but believed VW when VW said that they had solved the problem. Now many of those out there driving “clean” VW diesels will feel ashamed that they are driving “dirty” cars when they thought they were buying clean ones.

Shame on VW….

 

Re: Bitzman

"The EPA has reacted almost violently...."

"...VW being fined as much as $13,000 for each and every car that they fitted with this trick device....''

"...billions of cars...."


You address a serious issue here in the U.S., but some of your facts/representations about the U.S. situation are questionable (I've listed three, above).

First, I wouldn't characterize the EPA's reaction as VIOLENT.

Second, the possible fines have as yet to be determined.

Third, the number of cars in this country cited in news reports is approximately 500K, not billions. I assume it was your intent to report the number of cars which might be subject to EPA penalties (by our own federal government/agencies), not the number of diesels sold around the world (reported to be around 11 million).

If you're going to be on a soap box, please be accurate.

I'm not defending Volkswagen, by the way.

 

Manufacturers have always tailored their ECU programming and other factors such as gearing etc to get the best performance in fuel consumption and emissions tests based on the test parameters in the region the cars are sold in. Its generally accepted that real world emissions and consumption will be higher than test results.

But this VW issue is different. They had an algorithm which detected when a test was being run and set a "dyno calibration" flag in the software which invoked different settings. Thats a whole higher level of duplicity.

Its possible that other manufacturers do this but the initiative would need to come from the individual manufacturer. Its not something that would be in the reference code from the ECU supplier.

 

I'm not opposed to your article nor defending VW but some perspective can't hurt;

Large (Cummins) diesels in Trucks are more polluting than small, modern 4Cyl., so are 2 stroke engines, old cars, etc. VW may've been behaving badly but cannot be held accountable for all of the worlds pollution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_General_Motors_recall

90 direct (Wikepedia says 124), proven casualties is a bigger case as VW's diesel gate as far as I'm concerned. Also considering my first point.

Therefor "only" a $900 million penalty in 2014 seems strange to say the least given what VW may be looking forward too; double standards ??

Europe is full of trucks, SUV's, Boats and cars with 4,6,8 and 12 Cyl. diesel engines. In some country's like France and Belgium far more than 50% of cars (regular cars) sold have diesel engines. And their not all VW. Again VW behaved badly but cannot be held accountable for all of the worlds pollution, even if it polluted more than it promised.

I don't think anyone in Europe thinks diesel engines are clean. "Fine dust"/soot particles from (diesel) engines has been part of the debate and in the news for years. Some city's are even prohibited for old diesel (and gasoline) cars becuase of it.

People that want to drive "eco friendly" drive electric cars; too bad though quite a number of power plants are still run on cheap coal, speaking of pollution.

 

So how long until we find out employees of the non-profit that caught this shorted VAG stock recently?

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-22/dear-volkswagen-was-your-biggest-mistake

 

So what happens if you own one of the affected VWs? Will they be recalled and have additional equipment grafted on to meet EPA guidelines?

Then, when the performance sucks, won't the owners have a class action suit against VW for selling them a product that doesn't deliver on the (performance) promises? Not to mention a claim of diminished (resale) value.

This whole mess could wipe them out.