Carbon composite cars... do they have an expiration date? | FerrariChat

Carbon composite cars... do they have an expiration date?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by bpu699, Mar 29, 2016.

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  1. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #1 bpu699, Mar 29, 2016
    Started this as another thread, but figured this question can stand on its own...

    FIA rated race seats that are fiberglass/carbonfiber/kevlar "expire" after 5 years... Rationale is that the composite loses strenght with time...

    And the mother of all questions: Whats going to happen to all these high end cars that are all carbon fiber? Lotus? Konnesig? Newer porsches? Do these all go in the dumpster after 5-10 years as the composite has "dated out..."

    Are they less safe with each passing year? Will values plummet 10 years out? 20 years out?

    How is it that you can build an entire car out of composites and thats ok, yet seats "expire?"

    Should the whole car "expire?"
     
  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 Bas, Mar 29, 2016
    Ferrari/Mclaren estimated that they shells of the F50/F1 had to be replaced after 10 years because they where so new to it back then.

    Not aware of any monocoque replacements due to strength loss or whatever, only because of bad enough accidents that the monocoque was damaged.

    We're now 20 years down the line...
     
  3. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    #3 Ak Jim, Mar 29, 2016
    Just think about the 787. Very large percentage of carbon fiber, it will be interesting to see what the service life is on that airframe. Also most likely much better construction in the aircraft than any car.
     
  4. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #4 bpu699, Mar 29, 2016
    Isnt it odd that race seats "expire" after 5 years... They see much less stress than suspension components/fatigue areas/etc..

    I get that carbon/epoxy have a lifespan... So does cement and concrete...

    Do these frames all turn to mush after 10 years? Increased safety issues?
     
  5. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

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    #5 cheesey, Mar 29, 2016
    in CF structures the resin is the weak link... the resins serve to bind the CF... keeping the resins at a minimum level also saves weight... UV attacks resins, while the carbon fibers are immune... the weave in CF structures is appreciated for its' looks, left unfinished the resin in the structure is attacked by UV the loss of the adhesive properties of the resin leads to eventual failure... CF structures are best protected by an opaque finish ( paint ) blocking penetration of the UV... premium structures keep resin levels at very low levels...
    a properly protected CF structure should enjoy a long life and should not have an expiration date... it's like other materials used in cars, exposure to adverse conditions will shorten their useful life..
     
  6. tundraphile

    tundraphile F1 Veteran

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    #6 tundraphile, Mar 30, 2016
    It is the difficulty in properly assessing damage between layers of the laminate, and then the difficulty in repairing that damage when detected that is the rub.

    Aerospace quality is probably better but I have little doubt structures for cars are also of very high quality. But the tools available to aerospace to check the structure is almost undoubtedly better to ensure the safety of hundreds of passengers. I guessing the local dealer won't have the capabilities an airport maintenance facility will have.

    To get a but off topic, for anyone with an Alfa 4C, are the insurance rates high? I would think one trip into a ditch could mean a total loss if the CF tub is damaged at all.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 william, Mar 30, 2016
    It is on a McLaren ...
     

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